Ep: 214: AI's Erotic Turn and Fertility Chat: The Future of Tech and Society w/ Special Guests Sam Cole on Erotic Era, Parker Jay-Pachirat on Gen Z Investing, Fhantom Bets on Polymarket Scams, and Blake Finucane on the State of Art

[00:01] Dumb Shower is a weekly live chat on all things tech, crypto and pop culture news brought to you by Boys Club, a New York based media and creative studio. DVH is hosted by myself, Tina Burke and Natasha Hoskins. Hi. Co-founders, marketers and entrepreneurs that have built our careers in new tech and startups. We're also proudly the dumbest in the room and we love to learn in public. DVH is recorded live and best consumed as a video podcast. Here's this week's show. [00:31] you [00:34] Coming to you live. [00:37] from New York City. Yeah, the Friday thing, honestly, [00:40] At first I was like, it's going to be great because we're all loose. [00:43] End of the week. [00:44] But it's actually like the whole week is on you. [00:48] We're good? Oh. [00:49] Okay. [00:50] You know, hi, hi. We're good now? [00:53] Okay, great. Were we muted before? [00:56] No worries. All good. Welcome to Boise Club Live. Here we are. [01:00] Exciting day. Great day to be here. Great day to be here. Great day to be in... [01:04] Brooklyn, New York. [01:05] Shooting a live stream. Sunny. [01:07] Great vibes. We're going to see BTS. BTS is coming in. Okay, we have a packed show, a really fun show today. I'm just going to go through the agenda really quickly, and then we can jump on into it. Jump on in. We have Blake Finucane is going to come on and talk to us about art. [01:24] and the art market. [01:25] So, yeah. [01:26] If anyone's [01:28] Looking to buy. I don't know. It's good for you. And then we're going to have our first, I think, a non-profit.

[01:37] Guest on this live stream, at least the live live stream, Phantom Bets on X. Their bio says full-time gambler, part-time winner. They're going to tell us about. Honestly, I want to steal that. That's so good. That is so good. They're going to tell us about. There was a lot of drama that went down around the Nobel Prize polymarket. And they're going to. They've done some investigation. They're going to tell us about that. And then Sam Cole from 404 Media. Journalists. [02:07] I feel... [02:10] like not nervous talk to her i think she's gonna be wonderful but like i she's a journalist she's a journalist totally and like i just want her to know i i know i'm not i'm not yeah totally i want to be like i but i've you know there's like this conversation around like journalist versus entertainer yeah but then it's weird to be like no i'm an entertainer because i don't even think i'm hilarious so i'm just like i i have i have sometimes i go live on twitter [02:40] is an incredible incredible if you are not subscribers to 404 media [02:45] An error has been made. You can reconcile it right now. It's some of like the... [02:50] Best reading I do all week. Yeah, the best reporting on the internet. Lots of ex-New York Times folks. Yeah. Anyway, we'll talk about it with her. And then Parker J. Pastryot is going to come on, lead consumer partnerships at base. Parker, friend. Friend of the pod. Friend. Friend of Boys Club. Yeah. And she was number one.

[03:10] She was day number one. She was day number one, yeah. I remember Thanksgiving 2021. Yeah. We, she was like... [03:17] I want in on this. And you and I were like, what? So really excited to catch up with her. She's going to talk to us about she's got she's got a lot that she she sent us a very long text that was like, here are the things that I want to talk about. Absolute range. A range. So it it goes from Gen Z investing habits through to fertility and trad wifedom, which is honestly like starting to become a segment on the show. We are covering it now every week, different versions of different [03:47] interpretations of trad wifedom. So that's the show for today. Before we get into it, a couple shout outs to our friends, our sponsors, our friends, our sponsors, our friends, our [03:56] Polygon. If you've touched crypto in any way, chances are you've already used Polygon. It's the chain quietly powering a bunch of stuff that actually works, that people actually use, like Stripe's crypto payments, betting on Polymarkets, prediction markets, and a bunch more. [04:10] Thank you so much Polygon for supporting this live stream. We love you. We are so appreciative. [04:17] And then the second partner here, [04:20] I'm going to just bring this up on stage for a moment. [04:24] Look at that. Wow. [04:26] That's a sexy landing page. Look at this. Wow, cool. And it slides up. [04:33] Bickey is a hardware wallet and it's honestly like the coolest hardware wallet that I've seen in a long time ever. Maybe it,

[04:43] The way that it's set up is that you have... [04:47] two of like it's a multi-sig but you need two of three things to make a transaction one thing is your phone one thing is the hardware wallet and then the other thing is in the cloud so it's really clever the way it works and it's like fingerprint activated and you know it's like a lot of things [05:02] We, yeah, it's really cool. We've, we've. Very cool. It's, it's of the hardware wallets. [05:09] It has the most aesthetic vibe. Yeah. Very chic. [05:14] And if you lose it... [05:18] You, there's like all sorts of backup. You can find it. You can still get in. I always think of the guy, have you ever heard the story of the guy who, um, [05:26] lost his [05:27] his hardware wallet or like, [05:30] And he knew it was in a landfill and has been spending millions of dollars to dig up. Because it's worth like hundreds of millions. Totally. Yeah. I think recently he gave it up. [05:42] I mean, I know it's so sad. So sad. I actually like, [05:46] There's a few things I can't think about. [05:49] Do you want to hear them? Yeah. One is this type of thing. [05:53] Like losing your seed phrase. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Losing a big amount of money. Totally. Like I just, [05:57] Not even like, oh, I missed the boat and I didn't invest. No, you invested, an error has happened and you don't have access. That's one thing I can't think about. [06:06] The other thing I can't think about, space. [06:08] don't like thinking about it. Yeah. I don't want to know about that. None of my business. Absolutely. I don't feel that way about the bottom of the ocean for some reason. That's different for me. And then the third thing is, uh,

[06:20] eternity. [06:21] Yeah. Also don't like that. Well, it makes us feel quite small. [06:24] Well, I'd also, I'm trapped. [06:27] Oh, both in space and in eternity. We're going on an interesting avenue here with today's podcast. Another thing that I don't want to think about is. [06:35] the market. [06:37] I don't want to think about that. It's red. Bad. It's red. Like, I woke up. I think that's why I've been in such a weird mood this morning because I woke up and I looked at it. I haven't looked. Should I look? No. Okay. [06:46] Everything is down bad. What's Bitcoin at? Except for gold. Gold's up. [06:53] All-time high, I think, yesterday. I'm going out and selling my necklaces. Hey. There was this, like, quite chilling. Well, hold on. [07:07] all the red here. [07:09] Not good. [07:13] You're just zooming in. 182 billion lost from the crypto market in the last 18 hours. [07:19] Um, so that's tough. I will say, um, [07:25] I got on Hyperliquid. [07:29] I'm new to Hyperliquid. Over the past week, I've been playing around with it and [07:35] Have been doing my first job. [07:36] longs and my first longs I haven't done shorts okay she's a believer well she's because I feel like it's just like there's something you should have done some short no clearly yeah there's just something like and I've a couple times been like oh maybe but there's something that feels really spiritually like

[07:54] Incorrect. Incorrect about shorting something. There's a tension. [07:59] But that's hedging your back. Like you, I know. Totally. It's illogical. Yeah. I'm just saying there's something that feels spiritually bankrupt about shorting anything. Whoa. I know. That's a stance to take. I haven't been able to do it, but I should have. [08:12] Have you shorted? I've not shorted. I've not really like, well, actually. [08:17] Not with my own money. [08:18] Okay. I've told someone to take a short position and watch them do it. I do have to say I posted on this weekend. I was at a friend's house. They made me breakfast and a lot. It was wonderful. And then we were looking at hyperliquid and I posted a video of it. [08:33] And, yeah. [08:34] I was like brunch with these people means cardamom bums and perps. Uh-huh. [08:41] And I typoed, which I typo all the time. And I've decided as an adult, I don't have to care. [08:46] Totally. And I said, prep. [08:48] instead of perps oh yeah that's a different thing a few people wrote me and they were like it's it's perps and i'm like i'm not that fucking stupid okay like they didn't realize it was a typo or they were trying to be nice both of my both [09:00] Both people who wrote me are very good friends, so I think they were looking out. Yeah. And like, oh. But I was like, guys... [09:06] It was a typhoon. Well, also PrEP is an HIV medication. Yeah. It was a video of hyperliquid. I don't think people thought it was literally. Okay. Anyway. So yeah, markets down. These two images that I put in the newsletter this week of people queuing for...

[09:24] To buy gold. [09:26] I don't know, just something about it. I will say that's in New York. [09:31] No, this is in Sydney. And then this one here is in Hong Kong. Okay. Wow. Okay. [09:36] Why? There's just like a whole sentiment about New Yorkers being willing to line up for anything. [09:40] So it's no signal at all if you see someone waiting in line in New York, I guess, is the sentiment. I get that. Okay. I think we should do draft tweets, and then I think we should bring on our first guest. Great. [09:52] Um, [09:54] I... [09:56] um [09:58] My draft tweet. [10:01] is [10:03] Thank you. [10:04] I feel mixed about screenshots. [10:08] screenshots from, I have a belief if you're going to screenshot something and post it, you need to get permission from that person. [10:15] Okay. Like in a chat. In a chat. Yeah. Or they need to be. [10:20] anonymized. But we have a very funny group chat with somebody. It's you, me, and another person. And it's a constant... [10:29] form of entertainment for me and she sent she sent a tweet and it's alec baldwin crashes range rover into tree in the hamptons and it's him on his phone and there's a few other images and she said her caption to that was he was reading feed me which i thought was so funny i just died so i yeah [10:52] That's I'm going to hold off on. You could. I could ask her. You could ask. But I do ask her a lot.

[10:57] I do post screenshots from this group chat a lot. I was just giving it a beat. Okay. What about you? [11:03] I have one that I have had in the drafts for a while and you told me not to send and I'm just going to read it out and we could I still don't have to send it but naming my twins mergers and acquisitions. [11:13] Oh, that was so it is a very good tweet for the record. I think it's very good. Thanks. [11:17] Okay. [11:19] Blake? Blake, come on up. Blake Finucane? [11:22] you're welcome to look at all my look at all my efforts in case i get part um hi blake finucan how's it going [11:32] Uh, it's so great to be here. I feel very special and honored and, uh, wow, look at your eyes. [11:40] The blue brings it out. I will say it's a new fleece. I got it yesterday at the San Iliang store. Okay, can I get a price check on that? Oh, that's... I just... [11:51] No, you can't. Give me a band. Give me a high-low. [11:56] in between like okay i over under let me suggest okay yeah over under um over 600. [12:02] about that. [12:04] About 600. Yeah. Okay. And we're talking USD, so CAD, we don't even want to go there. CAD would be 70% more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With a 3% upcharge on the old credit cards. You got it. Crypto solves for that, I believe. The creator economy. Here we are. Crypto does solve for that. It does solve for that. 3% on every dealer. I know. I don't know. You. [12:26] Well,

[12:28] Do you get that like refunded by your credit card? No, you do not get that refunded. Okay, I think some credit card companies do refund it. Wait, wait, is that a Canadian thing? What? 3%? Well, you're paying an initial 3%? Yeah, for every, can you guys hear me? [12:40] Yeah, perfect. For every like if I'm in Europe, if I'm anywhere outside of Canada, I get charged three percent. And then I noticed in Scandinavia when I was there a couple of months ago, they do. OK, what's your three percent? What's your bank? An extra three percent? Six percent? What is my bank? Toronto Dominion TD. And I saw their flagship needs to get there. Yeah, that doesn't work. [13:01] Table coins, stable coins, stable coins. [13:06] Okay, wait, I have a question for you. [13:09] Recent photographs were leaked this week. [13:12] Of Katy Perry and Justin Trudeau. Yeah. I want to know your opinion. Okay. Well, actually. And, you know, I'll tell you what Kate said to me. [13:21] My dear friend Kate said, Blake, do not talk about Canadian politics on this live stream. I love that you talk about Canadian politics. And she goes, every time you're on, she says... [13:32] Don't talk about Canadian politics. And I'll just say for the record, I got asked about him. No, I will say we we go you. I want to know. I want to be educated. [13:41] I don't know why I keep, excuse the term, leaning in. Yeah, I think you might need to. I need to lean back. You can do whatever you want. But move the mic. We can't hear it. You got to lean. You actually do need to lean in. Lean in. [13:52] We're going to pull the mic towards you. I can do that. It's a bit of a... [13:57] A little straddle situation. That seems. Okay. Yeah, I didn't want to say the word straddle. It is. I feel as though you're not going to like that shot. So I think, Michael, do you want to come up? Oh, my gosh. I see it. Here, I'll do this. To the rescue.

[14:14] Oh, there we go. As the first guest, it's always. [14:22] Like this? [14:25] Perfect. [14:26] Now you have plenty of time to think about Canadian boys. Listen, okay, I hate it. [14:33] I hate it. It's just like, you know, I think everyone should be finding love. [14:39] No problem there. I just, I hate the couple. I will say in terms of something, this isn't my official shill, but Xavier Trudeau, which is Justin Trudeau's son on TikTok is iconic. He just started his rap career. [14:53] He is 17 years old, based in Ottawa, our nation's capital. And if that isn't worth a follow, I'm not sure what it is. And he's under-followed. So in terms of like a person to follow, that's your guy. That's your guy. Yeah, I don't, but I just... [15:10] I... [15:10] I just want JT to kind of like chill for a second. Okay. Take a beat. Take a beat. Yeah. Blake, do you have a draft tweet to share with us? I do. Okay. So my draft tweet. Oh, from memory. She's got it. Oh, yeah. Oh, no, no. So my draft tweet is. [15:26] I recently learned that both Jack Harlow and French Montana are six foot three. Oh, my God. Wait. [15:33] Thus, their careers make much more sense to me in terms of their success. 100%. Wait, that's the draft tweet? Correct. You must send it. I didn't want, to be honest, I didn't want people coming after me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm like. She doesn't want stans or that. Exactly, which I'm like, is there such a French Montana stand? I'm not sure. But, like, there certainly are Jack Harlow stands. Me. Me.

[15:55] Listen, honestly, listen. [15:58] I feel you would be too. I am. Okay, thank you. In the sense of like, [16:03] like him uh-huh but like the music is tough i mean dualipa that's a great song [16:10] That's not the song I would be picking. Number one. Anyway, we should move on from this. But I will say I never got the Jack Harlow thing until you saw him in person. And then I was like, wow, I'm it's. [16:21] Exactly. Exactly. So and French Montana is marrying one of the like main Dubai princesses. Really? Yeah. Like this got announced like a month ago. And I'm like, yeah, I saw that photo. I don't know that speaks to his height. [16:33] I don't know what that speaks to, but I don't think it speaks to... [16:37] Really? I don't I don't I don't know that that there was kind of a haunting photo, honestly. Oh, really? Like in a negative way. It was like there was just like there was a lot of like face. There was a lot of. Oh, I saw. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, congratulations to everyone. Love is love. What's his face? The musical guy. Can't stand him. [16:59] You know who I'm talking about. You know who I'm talking about. What's his name? [17:04] Oh, my poor. [17:05] No, I'll tell you this. Hamilton, Hamilton. Macklemore? Lin-Manuel Miranda? Could not. What? No one likes him. That's it. He's a talent. No, I've never seen Hamilton. Yeah, he's a talent, but he's super irritating. Anyway, moving on. Tell about the art market. [17:22] Well, I want to preface this by saying I did bring my phone because I there are some numbers that I do want to share. OK, also, I just want to give a little context for folks for you and your expertise in that market. You are an art historian. I am an art historian. I.

[17:38] And I studied that for about 10 years of my life. And my specialty was always the intersection between economics and the art market. Hence me getting into crypto and NFT. So it was like a really perfect transition. [17:53] And. [17:54] Obviously, crypto in terms of transparency solves a lot of problems there. I'm also a... [18:01] crypto investor. I ran an NFT fund. So in terms of my [18:06] intersections they're vast and they continue to get intertwined um [18:11] The big thing about the art market in general is that there's very little official data because most things are done behind closed doors. So when you're really looking at the art market, there's several indicators and the numbers don't really tell the whole story. So the first thing that I want to say is... [18:28] Um, overall auction results in terms of the actual amount that has been sold is down 10% in the first half of this year compared to last year. Um, so, um, and, and many, um, people are using the term free fall. So if you're looking for a positive story to really level off of crypto, that's not going to be it. The only, the other thing before, before you jump in is, um, fine art, fine art auction sales are down 41% from 2022. [18:58] Okay. Ooh, okay. [18:59] Please. Well, I figured that this was going to be the update because I recently went to dinner, sat across from a few people. I will not name the names of these auction houses, but one of them was like, yeah, my entire digital art. Yeah.

[19:14] sector entire team laid off yeah and i was like oh that's a bearish signal for digital art wait sorry is this digital art or this is all public right yeah public auction records art sales of at auction because that's the only thing that's actually going to get [19:29] strong, hard numbers for us. Yeah. I will say, though, what what's been really interesting is that most auction houses are talking about moving more online. So as much as digital art sales, Christie's shut down their digital art. [19:43] division last month as well. Now they're calling it like a repurposing, like they're moving it over and just combining it. [19:51] Who? [19:52] So who knows what that means? What that means is that there's one guy left on the team and he's getting reincorporated to the rest of the team. Fair enough. And the other thing is a lot of the big traditional galleries are closing. So like every single month. [20:07] a couple are closing. Oh, no. [20:10] And... [20:11] What they're really saying is that's like a combination. Real estate is impossibly expensive in New York and LA. You also have... [20:18] The expectations of like what a new artist is supposed to be selling for. If you're a new artist and you're like, this is my reference. [20:29] That your new work is selling for 250K a pop. Like that is genuinely unsustainable. People are not interested in that anymore. And if a dealer wanted, like the expectations was to sell 100% through of your show. Now 60% sell through is like considered.

[20:46] incredible. I think another thing. So wait, it used to be 100. And now it's like 60 is a success. What we're seeing is [20:56] if you're more agile, excuse the tech terms, if you're more agile, if you're a smaller team, you're actually doing better. So where the opportunities are is, [21:07] Are you finding like a new artist that's forgot or a forgotten artist or someone that hasn't really been discovered from, say, the abstract expressionist era or like a new young artist that is represented by a smaller gallery where you're selling for 40 to 80 K for a painting? [21:24] That's going to be where the real sweet spot is, which is considered smaller, cheaper, quote unquote. I think I'm in the wrong tax bracket for this conversation. I mean, you are in Williamsburg. Is your hypothesis like recession indicator? Like people just don't have more disposable income? Like what's your... [21:41] thought um i think uh bless you uh i i think we have a nine-year-old in the studio today with us so that's what's going on there and and and sneezing happens to all um oh miranda's here i didn't even see her um oh and [22:02] Hi, Oscar. [22:04] So normally, as it's understood, the art world is quite a lagging indicator. So it actually takes a while. So, you know, when everyone's like, okay, like gold is at an all-time high, even like the crypto markets beside this month have had like a very, very good year. Yeah.

[22:20] art kind of is slower to be impacted. So what people are saying and what we're seeing is, [22:28] It will probably people are like, quote unquote, hopeful for 2026 as kind of. [22:35] the economy and interest rates go lower. Another thing I think is really interesting that I thought the audience and my two favorite people might appreciate is another kind of hard number that's interesting to look at is loan rates. So a lot of people are actually loaning and collateralizing their artwork. And the financialization of artwork, of course, has gone on since the Renaissance era. [23:05] Um... [23:07] What do I have here? So loans grew 14% this year. [23:12] So when you say loans grew 14%, you're saying individuals who own art and are loaning against it. Exactly. That – [23:20] It's a 14% increase. Yeah. Okay. And... [23:23] Now, the reason why, okay, why would I sell my work if it's going to be down, you know, 40% for the last three years when I can get that capital and invest it into real estate, into gold, and you can have the upside there. Okay. And what they're also saying is a lot of gallerists are needing to loan their paintings. The same business. Exactly. Okay.

[23:53] market really is. I see the loan kind of [23:57] um, [23:59] industry growing and growing Christie's Sotheby's they all offer loans as well um so uh owners collectors will go out and shop to see who can actually give you the best loan right okay um can I ask a probably silly question about the gallery uh business model so how it works is I own some shop or like retail location I've [24:24] get artists in to show and I'm taking 10%. [24:28] Ah, 50. [24:30] 50% off of every sale that happens within the gallery of the artists that I'm commissioning. And obviously a lot of gallerists take... 50%? Yeah, a lot of gallerists take advantage. So like I could tell you that you're the artist. I could tell you I sold your work for 10K. [24:44] and give you [24:45] 2k and said I sold it for four most like it's so secretive and it really thrives on that because that's the only way you can really maintain markets it's a very corrupt market which again. [24:55] crypto solves that or some of it. Because of the transparency. Exactly. And artists getting taken advantage of. What we've also seen is there's, [25:04] Some more joint mergers between, or that's not the right word, but some partnerships between smaller galleries and bigger galleries. Pace, Hauser, and Wirth have done partnerships with smaller galleries. So they take on their artists and they don't need to, they can hedge their bets in a bigger way because they can show artists, they can take 50% from, like, they combine for the 50% with a smaller gallery and that can help.

[25:32] you know, they can expand their business in that way. 50%. Yeah. Is there like a DTC movement for the artists? What we've been noticing, we, me, the collective we, vous in French, of course, is that a lot of, or some artists have been going directly to like artist management groups, and they're the ones that are selling, they're the ones that are dealing with galleries, [26:02] artist management groups like a caa no like specifically like small boutique okay uh specifically artist managers that would be okay for the art world versus like a larger media that's not that doesn't really feel like it fixed that's that just feels like adding another middle man and yes or if you go to direct to galleries then they they might feel like they have more control or you can just call it like another a different issue that's really the same issue but [26:32] We're legitimizing you. We can make it so that you can charge the price that you want. And the big art fairs are where a lot of business is done. It can cost $250,000 to get into Art Basel. As an artist. As a gallery. As a gallery. And you're not going to get in as a single artist. You have to be represented by a gallery to go in there. It's very hard to qualify to be on the gallery grounds floor or in Art Basel, Miami, wherever. And any of the big art fairs, those would be the biggest. Fries in London, these types of things. [26:57] Um, and so it's, it's really, really hard to break in as an artist. The other thing I thought, cause you know, just.

[27:05] you know, [27:06] some more numbers is that [27:10] the actual number of transactions is up significantly since 2016. So that means that more people are buying art, but for lower prices, [27:19] And the other thing that I wanted to say is that luxury categories in general have like skyrocketed outside of art. So we're talking purses, bags, jewelry. Fleeces. [27:32] I know and it's like oh the millennials like spending their money in dumb ways and like [27:38] Um... [27:39] And it's like, if my mom asked me how much this cost, I would lie to her. Would you? Of course I would. Yeah. [27:46] So yeah, it's a 30% increase. So like, you know, you're like Birkins and Chanel's are seen as investment, um, [27:54] vehicles, and 25 almost percent of new buyers entering into [28:02] Christie's, Sotheby's, Phillips, whatever it is, are interested in those categories. So I think because art is seen as such and like is seen way more as an unattainable asset, particularly if you're entering into like a 250k painting that two years from now may be worth 40. [28:18] So it's like, and the liquidity on the, on, on a Birkin is going to be like, [28:23] significantly more. Now, again, I think the market is [28:28] as manipulated as any other market, but it's more attainable. And you can wear it and post on TikTok in a way. The storytelling for people is so much easier, I would say. Oh, this is going to play nicely into our conversation with Parker, where we're talking about

[28:44] um gen z investment strategies but also buy now pay later and like [28:51] that why that has taken off and like the insane debt i've never done that ps me neither so i'm when i'm buying my luxury purchases okay i'm paying cash all all id exactly so just for the just for the side note i'm not trying to go into that for any of this stuff um [29:08] I was going to ask you something about, oh, are you seeing any shows while you're here? [29:12] like any art shows? Are you going to the galleries at all? Yes. I'm going to go to... [29:20] the Frick just because I'm really excited to see the renovation. And then I'm going to do MoMA, the Met and Brooklyn. So one a day, hopefully. Okay. Maybe tomorrow instead of we can do Ghani, but then maybe we go to the galleries in Chelsea. [29:33] I would love that. I think that'd be fun to do with you. I'd love that. Um, chill minute. Yeah. Okay. Here's what we do with our guests. We have 60 seconds. [29:42] You can show anything you want. [29:44] Anything you want for 60 seconds. Uh-oh. And... [29:48] Do you have something in mind? Yeah, it's more of an abstract thing. Great. Okay. That totally works. I'm going to start. You ready? Yep. Okay. Okay. [29:57] Go. [29:58] Okay, my idea for the chill was... [30:01] the big thing is asking for what you want and, and, [30:05] making sure that you ask clearly for what you want and knowing what you want, knowing what you want and not being afraid of asking for it, whether that's sliding into a DM, going up to someone, being very clear with yourself as to what,

[30:19] as to, okay, this is really important to me, this is what I'm needing, and communicating that clearly to people. And I think being in New York, people are just communicating directly left, right, and center here. And the power of that, I think, being Canadian, being a woman, all these things, it's a beautiful reminder that that, [30:38] really has so much power in terms of getting where you want to go. And as Natasha said yesterday, closed mouths do not get fed. That's a Miranda. That was a Miranda. And so that I think is a beautiful reminder. And it's a reminder to myself as well. And I love an inspirational chill. That was perfectly timed, a sort of self-help themed chill. No, but it's great. No, I think we [31:08] We needed it. We needed it. I need help. Yeah, it's more of like a... [31:12] trying to inspire myself to do particularly in the city where dreams come true yeah it's you you have a little confronting around your canadian maybe ism and you two i think are a beautiful example and you you two endlessly inspire me but but how you two operate and clearly communicate um and being around you is is always a gift and how you guys do that is uh is beautiful and so yeah just telling myself and uh is there anything you need right now i just absolutely no it's just [31:42] And this really sets me up nicely to ask. Yeah, no, no, no, no. No subtext there. I would love it if you had an ask. Okay, Blake, you're the best. Thank you so much. Thank you for being here. Appreciate it. Thank you. You're welcome to hang out as long as you want. It's amazing. We love it. We love it. Oh, great. Oh, my gosh. I love that. I love that.

[32:05] Okay, while we get set up for our next... [32:10] You have a remote? I have a remote. Diana? Diana? [32:14] It looks like they are... [32:17] have arrived. Oh, they've arrived. [32:20] Thank you. [32:22] Great. Oh, great. Okay. Couple of minutes. No problem. Great. Well, [32:27] That was so interesting. I... [32:30] Wish I had any sense of... [32:33] art. [32:33] Uh-huh. You know, like just it's such a fascinating totally market, I guess. And I yeah, I feel like. [32:42] I'm so lucky to have Blake as a friend. I know. It's really nice. I... [32:46] No. [32:48] Feel so, um, [32:50] I was an art history fan. [32:52] Oh, yeah. You're a gallery girl. I'm a gallery girl. Yeah. But I've really fallen out. Like, that dinner I went to the other night, I was like, oh, I... [33:01] Everybody was talking about like all the shows they're going to right now, what they're seeing, what they're liking. And I was like, I need to get back into this. Yeah. This is really like nourishing to be a part of. I think the money of it is very interesting, but I also think like the. Totally. The art of it. The art of it. Absolutely. So I just want to have a little like autism side quest for a second. Let's go. And I want to talk to you about the. [33:23] subway builder game okay i've been hearing a lot about this but i don't know what it is okay so let me bring it put it up on the stage so you can see it [33:32] So I started hearing about this on –

[33:39] Twitter. Okay. And basically, [33:42] It was like being teased for a while and now it's come out. Okay. And people are saying that they are spending entire days – [33:50] consumed by this game. Okay. It's called Subway Builder. Okay. And I have it here. I can show it to you. But basically, the premise is... [33:58] It's like a resources game. Okay. Where it's like, okay. Settlers of Catan-esque? Much more like city planning and logistics. Wait, what's, oh my gosh. Do you know the train board game? [34:12] Tiki's right. I don't know, but perhaps. So it gives you like... [34:19] Here's the population density. It's different U.S. cities. [34:24] New York City, Boston, blah, blah, blah. And there's probably about 12 or 15 of them. And then it tells you like, [34:29] the population densities of where people live. Okay. And then the densities of where people work. Fun. And then you're like, you're designing your own subway system, basically. And you're trying to make the most efficient, like it's a, it's a balance of like, [34:42] cost with efficiency okay and that's like kind of the purpose of the game and people are going crazy for it this tweet here my entire floor mt has just been one-shotted by this subway builder game literal days have already been lost but check out my bossa map and people are like showing off their maps of their subway wow builds and i just love it i love it too i love it too i love people having fun on the internet um it i do feel like [35:08] A draft tweet would be a quote tweet of...

[35:11] this and something along the lines of if I were neurodivergent, this would go so hard. Totally. Totally. Okay. I'm going to let you. Great. [35:19] Join your friend here. I'm excited to hear it. [35:24] Do I need headphones? [35:27] Yes. [35:29] No worries. [35:32] Thank you. [35:36] Do I need some headphones? [35:39] okay. [35:41] Oh, no. Pause. Pause. [35:47] uh waste some time so here i am i am uh i'm posting to our twitter [35:55] State of the art market. Blake Finucane. Wasn't that a great segment? [36:02] She's so, so smart. I just, I can't think of thoughts and prayers. Wow. That's an incredible. [36:13] An incredible comment here. I don't really enjoy listening to women talking. Do you have any men you can put on the podcast? [36:20] You are in luck, kind sir. Oh, hey. How's it going? Hello. Doing pretty well. Yourself? [36:27] I'm doing great. Sorry about that. [36:30] All good. [36:31] I'm so excited to chat with you. So Phantom Bets, I don't know. [36:36] um [36:37] how exactly you want to be introduced, except for the only thing I know how to do is just to read your Twitter bio, which is full-time gambler, part-time winner. Do you feel like that sums it up for you? That pretty much sums it up. Yeah, I'm a trader on Polymarket and been doing this for about four years now.

[36:54] It's been fun. It's been a ride. And just in the past... [36:58] couple years like [36:59] slowly getting introduced to crypto, which is nice as well. Okay, so you're going to Polymarket first. Yeah, again, Polymarket first, crypto very lightly second. [37:10] Wow, that's an interesting pipeline. You don't hear that type of pipeline too often. Exactly. [37:16] Okay, so really excited to have you on because there's been a lot of polymarket drama this year. [37:25] this past two weeks, week and a half. I want to say full disclosure that I love polymorphia. So none of this is, it's all in love. Is everything okay? [37:38] Okay. [37:38] But basically what happened is the Nobel Prize – [37:43] was [37:44] announced, I guess, last week. And there was a trader who put a bunch of [37:52] bets on [37:55] The woman who was, I'm just going to share my tab, the woman who, [38:00] ended up winning. [38:02] Yeah. And folks found that very suspicious. And when I'm able to share my screen, I will. But basically, mainstream media picked up the story and was like, there's all this insider trading that's happening on on Play Market and the Nobel Peace Prize Committee opened up an investigation and everyone was like, there was a leak. It was espionage. And [38:21] That was basically how the story was framed. [38:23] from the mainstream press perspective and

[38:27] The whole time I was kind of like, man, I don't know, like that feels weird. It feels like a pretty high integrity organization for there to have been a leak of someone to, I don't know, it just seemed like an odd story. And then I saw your tweet, which was basically an investigation around the traitor and also various ways in which they could have access the information in advance of that. [38:52] Yeah. [38:53] in advance of the winner being announced. So I want to let you talk to talk through that. But does that roughly sum up [38:58] Sort of the shape of the story? Pretty much. I think on Polymarket, it was a bunch of different wallets who might have been connected in some way. So... [39:07] It might have just been one trader. It could have been a little group or a bunch of people. But yeah, it was suspicious from the moment 12 hours before. [39:18] The woman who was 1% went all the way to 70%. [39:21] And then... [39:23] 12 hours later to 100. It was very weird, for sure. It was very weird. Okay. And then tell me about the sort of WordPress investigation that you had heard of that you wrote the thread about. [39:36] Yeah, so when this... [39:39] When this initially happened, 12 hours before, we were trying to figure out who could this person be. And the main wallet who was bidding up these shares was also changing their Polymarket bio and their profile to really silly trolling stuff. They did neg risk conversion, which means changing your nose from one bracket to yes of the rest of them. And that's a little like a technical Polymarket thing.

[40:09] million of wallets on the website, I think only a couple of hundred might have known actually how to do this. So we thought it must be someone... It's a baseball joke. It must be someone in our, like it must be someone we might know who would know the technicals of the trades that they were making. So in our trading group, we looked at a couple of different wallets and a couple of [40:39] or [40:39] uh, being the quote unquote insider. So immediately I was like, okay, let me get some Twitter clout and interview you. And, uh, the interview was not, was, was one hour of a lot of rambling and, uh, [40:53] They called all my questions speculation, which was not very fun. It was difficult. It was a difficult interview. But after that interview ended, I got a random DM from some Twitter account with just a link. [41:08] And I link and it's a picture of Maria Machado. [41:12] And I'm like, okay, what do I do with this information? I say, so what is this supposed to tell me? They're like, this image was available online an hour and a half before the [41:21] the [41:23] announcement of the Nobel Peace Prize. [41:26] I was like, okay, this is amazing. So I started doing some digging and it turns out there's some, [41:32] something called an XML sitemap, which I think is what Google uses to index pages.

[41:39] for [41:40] whatever search engine like for search engines uh and apparently this image was available on the site an hour and a half before not on the actual nobel peace prize website but this uh developer tool kind of website so [41:58] Basically, knowing that, that it was available an hour and a half before, you could now think this is probably directionally, not exactly correct, but directionally correct as to how this trader or a group of them were able to find this information. [42:14] Thank you. [42:15] Which to you points it points to it being not a leak inside the Nobel Prize. It being a resourceful tab. I think it's more resourceful than inside. I mean, there's five five Norwegian. [42:30] people who know this information. The guy I interviewed did not sound Norwegian. He's a chronically online person. I don't think he has connections to the Nobel Committee. So I don't think it was nefarious or [42:47] It could be nefarious, but I don't think it was – [42:50] It's really an insider trade, you know, by the book. [42:55] um it's just incredible to me the the level of yeah just resourcefulness that um [43:03] is evident in moments like this where you're like, wow, it just, someone just had to like, I don't know, you wrote about like writing a script, writing a bot to be like monitoring the updates to this site map. Is that how you think that this happened? Like what, what, what would it take to like be able to find this last modified image and to be able to connect the dots?

[43:22] So it would take knowing that this XML sitemap exists. So the Nobel Peace Prize, the Nobel Committee website runs on WordPress, which I don't know much about it, but I've heard that it's low security, not the best thing you would want to use if you were trying to keep things secure. [43:41] not meant to be public, but staged, but set for staging. [43:46] public, right? So if this image was drawn and ready to be uploaded an hour before, because usually when we're setting up this stream, I'm in the backstage five, 10 minutes before. [43:56] But someone, if this stream was run on WordPress, maybe that someone could see that I'm about to go on stream before I'm actually there, you know. So it would take knowledge, a little bit of technical knowledge, and I guess a bit of luck too. [44:12] Why don't you think that the story was picked up by the mainstream press? Like it felt like [44:19] When I saw your tweet, [44:21] this one here that I have on the screen right now. I was like, this is a, that's a huge break in the story that I feel like should be covered. And I, it wasn't, I think at least not yet. Do you have any ideas as to why? [44:37] So I don't make claim, I didn't make a claim that this was exactly what happened, right? Because the trade happened 12 hours before. This only proves that it was an hour and a half before. Okay. So maybe it, again, it's directionally correct that maybe this is sort of the thing they did, but this is not exact. I mean, Matt Levine, I think a couple of days ago wrote about my tweet and talked about,

[44:59] uh what i did so i'm very happy that i was on [45:02] I was on a Bloomberg article a couple days ago. Congrats to me. No biggie. [45:08] And then, yeah, there was Wall Street Journal and other mainstream media that talked about the insider trading, but not exactly what I expected. [45:16] what I the investigation I did. Yeah, well, man, kudos to you. Really cool stuff. So you've been you've been trading on Polymarket for four years. Like now that we're in the prediction market meta, has that changed your trading strategy at all? Like what's it like having everyone join the party that you've been at for the past couple of years? [45:36] I mean, there's obviously more incentives for insiders now. I think Polymarket has over 4,000 markets, Kalshi over 17,000. And there's something for everyone. And if you're one of the five Norwegians or you're Taylor Swift's photographer, when she got engaged to Travis Kelsey, the night before the engagement announcement, her odds to be engaged went from 10% all the way to 50. That's a bit weird, right? And this happens a lot now. [46:06] hopefully either staying away from the market or even joining them is a [46:12] is a new strategy that's developed whereas before it was do my own research [46:17] or watch for news happening, and the moment the news happens, react to it. [46:22] Now news doesn't even come out and there's market movements, you know? [46:28] Interesting. So you're like, if there's a market where it's possible that there could be an insider...

[46:33] uh situation you're just not you're not you're not interested in in being involved in that market because i want to i said it's it's tough like i'm i'm have a i guess a higher risk tolerance than than some so maybe i'm willing to fade the insider i know the moment i saw this market uh i bought some no i bought no at 30 percent um i ended up selling it on another dip at like 60 so i made i made double my money there which is nice but after that i just stayed away from the market [47:03] the traders in the market were... [47:07] Not indicative of like, they weren't fresh wallets per se. You know, when you're an insider, you want to join on a fresh wallet, funded from a... [47:14] tornado or whatever and really be anonymous, these ones were not as anonymous. [47:20] So this one really... [47:23] was ugly, but other ones, there are, there are times when, when I'll join, [47:28] an insider or I'll try to fade one and I, and I fall flat on my face, you know? Nice. Well, Hey, thanks so much for, for joining us. Sorry about the technical difficulties at the beginning. But if you ever have a, another, another story that you want to share on the live stream, just hit me up. We'd love to have you back. Thank you. Yeah. I'll be in, I'll be in New York next week. So maybe I'll, I'll see what I can do, but, but thank you so much. All right. Take care. Thank you. [47:52] Bye-bye.

[47:55] All right. All right. All right. All right. [48:01] Thank you. [48:02] I'm so excited. I see our next guest has arrived. [48:07] Can't wait. That was really fun. I don't know if you were able to hear it, but... [48:11] I just love a polymarket story. I love a polymarket story. [48:16] Thank you. [48:19] Great. Yeah, totally. Oh, I just got a mom question. Is my son able to be on the Wi-Fi? He is able to be on the Wi-Fi. He knows he can't look at YouTube. [48:27] so there's no YouTube heard him [48:31] So, [48:31] very sweetly say to Miranda, excuse me, is there Wi-Fi here? And I was like, I have been there. Can you just get eyes? He's playing Minecraft, right? Right. Okay, great. [48:43] Thank you. [48:44] Thank you. [48:45] yeah yeah yeah no no no wi-fi wi-fi is fine no youtube is not um but that's but thank you for hooking up [48:53] Thank you. [48:54] Okay. [48:57] Yeah, YouTube is fine. YouTube is wonderful. If you're 18 plus, that's fine. [49:05] Thank you. [49:05] Okay, should we bring our next guest? Yes. Samantha Cole, journalist from 4 for Media. [49:11] Come on down. Come on down. Hi. You're here. And we can adjust the mic and stuff if it's not comfortable for you. I'm Dina. Thank you. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too. We're so excited to have you. Thank you so much for making the journey from wherever you came from. Oh, I came from South Brooklyn, so I'm great. Oh, great. Basically the moon.

[49:36] We have been spending, this week we were spending a lot of time in South Brooklyn. Wow. Nice. So [49:41] We went to FNF Pizza last night. I haven't been there. Oh my gosh. Carol Rydens. Great. Anyway, plug for them. So I'll just do a quick little bio intro. You write from the far reaches of the internet about sexuality and [49:53] the adult industry, online culture, and AI. You're the author of How Sex Changed the Internet and the Internet Changed Sex. We're huge 444 Media fans and have told everyone again, go subscribe, go find it and subscribe to the newsletter. Incredible work that you guys do. So I'm so honored to have you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm excited to be here. Okay. So you, oh, actually, let's start with draft tweets. Do you have a tweet that you have? I do. So I haven't like [50:23] But I used to save my tweets like a shrine. I had so many draft tweets that were all bangers, trust me. But unfortunately, somehow they're gone. I guess Keele decided to trash all the tweets when he took over. Yeah. All the drafts. But I did have two in there that I... [50:38] salvage. Okay. Um... [50:41] They're not even that spicy, which is sad. I had some, like... Some good ones. Some stupid ones. Yeah. [50:47] um [50:48] Oh, yeah. Can you put your mic a little closer? There you go. I'll try to I'll try not to fidget. I'm a fidgeter. We'll try not to do that. This is, I guess, from when the Pulitzers are coming out and like everyone was like when the what the Pulitzers like being announced last year, maybe two years ago. [51:01] Um, and it's like when a newsroom wins a Pulitzer, the whole newsroom wins a Pulitzer. So everyone in my timeline was like, I want a Pulitzer. I want a Pulitzer. And I was like...

[51:09] I didn't. [51:12] So my draft was... [51:14] uh me every time awards get announced that i didn't apply for after a year of knowing nothing of significance oh man i wonder if i won the pollster announcement being like i wonder if i'm in here i didn't apply um well for the record if i was on the pollster committee i would absolutely award you the pollster okay so we are so excited to chat with you you wrote this piece um [51:44] this week, which I'll just bring up on the screen here, called ChatGPT's Hail Mary, [51:52] Chatbots You Can Fuck, which is basically about the recent announcement by Sam Holman that ChatGPT is going to allow for erotica mode. [52:05] in December mode. Yeah. Activated. Tell us, tell us about your, your piece. Yeah. So Sam tweeted this, I think on Tuesday. [52:14] The tweet itself is really funny. I'm just going to. [52:17] If I can just read you like two. Yeah, I'll also bring it up. I have it. It's so good. [52:24] Um, but basically he was like, Sam Altman is like the king of like, we just got yelled at. Um, but never saying that out loud. So he said, we made chat CPT pretty restrictive to make sure we were being careful with mental health issues is how he opens this announcement. Um, we realized this made it less useful slash enjoyable to many users who had no mental health problems.

[52:48] but um but given the seriousness of the issue we wanted to get this right and then he talks about um he's like basically like we solved um mental health and also gpt4 um at the same time in two months um and they are planning to roll it out with more personality so the thing with um oh [53:18] We're going to roll out age gating more fully, which means giving your ID to... [53:22] OpenAI. And we're going to treat adult users like adults and [53:27] well for even more like erotica for verified at all so he starts with like our users were mentally unwell and now they're not and then ends with we're gonna let them fuck the bot as a reward um just for the record 17.9 million views on the suite so yeah it got around replies are really funny really really funny really good [53:46] Um, okay. So tell us about your piece. Yeah. So, I mean, when I saw this, I was immediately like, okay, everyone is now like getting on the, [53:53] um they're like fuckable chatbots bandwagon even though [53:58] Like Sam Wattman said a couple months ago that he was never going to do that. Now, I think all these companies are realizing that what people actually want to do with these bots is... [54:07] like boyfriend, girlfriend, girlfriend, yeah. Um, [54:10] ai girlfriends are huge ai boyfriends are like also massive i don't think people realize how much like [54:15] erotica writing is going into AI chatbots by women. Are you looking at that subreddit, my AI boyfriend? Yeah. Crazy stuff. Oh, my God. Yeah, it's really wild. And, like, for the record, I...

[54:30] Support. [54:31] fucking a chatbot if that's what you want to do i have no problem with like doing erotica like erotic role play in a chatbot that's fine but [54:40] Um, but it's like, [54:42] Grok was flopping and then they were like, oh, let's invite like spicy mode into the mix. And now it's like we have a crazy raccoon that curses. And now I have like a hentai waifu that... [54:55] you can like use in your Tesla. It's like, it's just, it's so blatantly like we're losing money. [55:01] Time, time to bring in like... [55:04] Sex. Yeah. I felt like the, I want to talk about the age verification thing because that feels like a huge issue, but I found it really fascinating. You're tying it to the money of open AI and, um, yeah. [55:19] about like they're hemorrhaging cash, which I think we've always known. But the numbers here that you had that CNBC reported was... [55:27] on track to lose $5 billion in 2024, [55:30] when it made $3.7 billion. It's not good. It's not good. Also, how Sora 2, like their big recent swing... [55:39] is perhaps not the runaway success they wanted. And so your speculation is that this is a [55:45] the adding of the erotica. [55:46] is a is an effort to it's a business it's a business decision yeah i think so and it's like [55:53] because [55:55] people are outpacing the compute. Like they can't actually keep up with the amount that it costs to run how much people are using it. So it's not even that like...

[56:04] ChatTPD is not getting used and it's like, [56:06] It's running out of cash. [56:08] because it doesn't have enough users is that pro subscription is like $200 a month, right? Yeah. [56:14] And that's still not enough to keep it. [56:18] going and meet like close that like [56:20] two and a half billion dollar, one a half billion dollar gap. The margins of the business actually don't make sense. Yeah, no, definitely not. So I'm sure they're going to put... [56:28] uh, erotica or like this adult mode behind a paywall. Um, and that'll be like a pro, uh, [56:34] perk or like a, an extra level or something. [56:37] Um, but people are already using it to do this. Like the AI is my boyfriend. Yeah. A lot of that is totally easy. Yeah. So I'm curious how it's going to work. And I wonder, um, [56:51] I wonder how much of it is going to be like they're going to sell the data from that to like [56:56] third parties and end up like [56:57] making money that way. Um, [57:00] The age verification stuff is really bizarre because they, I don't think, can sell that data legally, or they shouldn't. [57:08] But people are going to be giving them a lot of really relevant, sensitive information, like specific birth dates and specific ages and specific locations and... [57:16] where they're from, where they live. [57:18] So that's like a very rich data trove. So it feels very like... [57:23] were in trouble whenever... [57:27] you let them let them fuck the chat bot yeah it's like the surface area for all these other things around that yeah where it gets really messy yeah yeah definitely so um i it's interesting you're talking about it's not the fact that obviously they don't have enough users it's that those users are so expensive the compute for those users is so expensive and i had a friend uh

[57:50] who... [57:51] a few months ago got like really like dating this guy was sort of like had like in a norm in a somewhat normal way like was obsessed with this relationship and was like what's going on what's going on and using chat gpt to help her sort of work through like what's happening and then of course got over him and was like oh my god came out of the fog and was like what the fuck was i doing am i dating chat gpt now well she asked chat gpt she was like okay okay [58:18] How much compute did I use? [58:20] on going back and forth with you about this man. And it was like, you could have powered a light bulb in an apartment for a week and a half. And I was like, that is so funny. That is so funny. So anyway, I feel like that's an interesting series of like how much compute have I used on specific things. And anyway, speaks to how often people are using it, how much relationships and like not even, she wasn't using it for erotica, but she was using it for like a relational dynamic. [58:50] trying to sort through that. It's like therapy. It's like therapy light. Yeah. There's just a big use of it. It's like a lot of people are using it for therapy. Okay. You wrote about the age gate, going back to the age getting tech. So obviously a big part of [59:02] the Sam's announcement is like, it's for adults. And so there will be some sort of paywall in addition to ID verification. And you wrote, you write, [59:13] an attempt to guess users' age and in some cases require users to upload their government-issued ID in order to verify that they're at least 18 years old.

[59:22] Don't do that. Like don't upload, don't upload your ID. Honestly, when tea happened a couple of weeks ago, [59:35] months ago. I don't know when that was, but it was such a wake up call to me where it's like, [59:41] We should not... [59:43] be uploading that personal information to private companies. And I mean, the AI and the same moment of it, like aside, just even uploading it, [59:54] to a private company in the first place, like feels, first of all, we have the technology to sell for that. There's all sorts of ZK cool stuff that you can do that you can verify your identity and in ways that don't require you uploading government ID. Like a selfie, like a KYC, like your face is next to you. [1:00:09] is your ID is the picture that they want usually. Yeah. I mean, you are the person who's in the ID. There's plenty of ways now. And I think that like, [1:00:19] I just, yeah, I, this feels like the most, honestly, the most concerning part of the story. It is, yeah. I mean, it's definitely, and Discord was breached, like, last week. I think it was last week, or maybe it was this week. I don't know. Time is, like... [1:00:30] makes no sense anymore. But, um, there was a huge discord reach because discord had to start taking IDs, verify ages for like certain channels. And like, if you were going to be in like an adult, um, [1:00:40] like a not safe for work channel, you had to give your ID to be able to access it. Yeah. Certainly voice modes and things like that. [1:00:46] um which is like we don't want like children on discord obviously like talking to adults about sex like that's not

[1:00:53] good either. But because this legislation forced [1:00:57] discord to start doing that it was something in the uk that was passed it was an online safety act related mm-hmm [1:01:03] And there's a bunch here in the states that are similar. [1:01:07] they had to start taking those like [1:01:10] ideas selfies like verifying like biometrically and it says on the page where you do that like we don't it says something like we don't store your data or restoring it safely or like we're showing it for three days or whatever [1:01:20] You can't believe that anymore. You can't just do it. Yeah. And even if it's like three days is long enough for like someone to hack and get all this information. So... [1:01:28] Discord was hacked in like tons of people's [1:01:31] We reported on this and we saw the... [1:01:33] the dump of like all the images and people were just like selfies and pictures of our IDs and just like out there in the wild addresses, addresses, home addresses, like all of it connected to like what they were doing and things like that. So, [1:01:46] um it's really bad like I can't and it's like now we're gonna have like people's [1:01:51] sexting conversations with chattyphthack and leaked because it's going to go into this like [1:01:55] bucket with age-gated information. Yeah, a honeypot. Yeah, it's like such a honeypot for a hacker to be like, great, now I can blackmail you in ways that you had never even conceived of before. Right, exactly. It's very... [1:02:07] Yeah, the age of our patient stuff is very strange. And it's like... [1:02:10] If you're in like Missouri and a couple other states, you have to verify your age for blue sky. [1:02:14] Okay. [1:02:15] Oh, interesting. Well, it's crazy. It's like platforms that are not [1:02:19] porn sites, platforms that are like just... [1:02:22] social media sites to do this now in certain states in the U S so.

[1:02:25] Get a VPN. I want to hear... [1:02:29] your like bull case for... [1:02:33] people being able to have [1:02:35] for this mode on over, um, and Chachi Petit because I, a friend of ours, a friend, uh, a friend of mine. And by that, I mean, someone I follow on Twitter, a close personal friend, a close personal friend, um, uh, tweeted something along the lines of like, I think sexual repression is good for society. Like that's like what it was. And, um, [1:02:59] I'm curious, like, obviously, I don't think that's your take. So I'd love to hear [1:03:03] Why it's not? [1:03:05] I mean, it's so I'm not really I'm not super into like it being on Chabit GPT where people are doing this. People have been rolling their own LLMs since. [1:03:14] chat GPT and a lot of these chat bots became mainstream because they were so guardrailed that [1:03:19] People were like, we want like the uncensored version of this where I can like say whatever, do whatever. And it won't tell me that that's like against the terms. [1:03:28] um so i'm i'm pro actually using like a self rolled and it's not hard um [1:03:35] LLM, [1:03:36] to do that sort of thing. And that way it's contained. It's not like, it's not owned by [1:03:42] a platform is not saying what was not going to see it, you know, like hackers aren't going to see it ideally. [1:03:49] So if that's like the kind of like if you want to be like. [1:03:52] like storyboarding for a novel or like writing actual erotica and like working out like the stories of it or whatever.

[1:04:00] I think that's fine. That's like people's prerogative or whatever. But yeah, [1:04:05] Doing it on this centralized platform, like, chatGPT is really... [1:04:10] scary to me, but I do think it's like, [1:04:12] I think people are working out stuff with ChatGPT that maybe they don't have access to therapy or they don't have access to, like, friends or friend group. Yeah. That they can, like, freely... [1:04:22] Um, yeah. [1:04:23] say things to, so... [1:04:25] Maybe there's like a use in it there, but... [1:04:29] I also don't think it's most people. I don't think most people actually want to... [1:04:33] have a relationship chatbot yeah yeah but i do think a lot of people who are used to talking to chattapedia especially [1:04:40] 4.0, which was very sycophantic. Yeah. It was so sycophantic that they pulled it. [1:04:45] and [1:04:46] then and now there's a station of the girlfriend or my boyfriend um yeah people did not have a good time with that like they really crashed out when crashed out yes yeah and it's like [1:04:59] These are the users that you're talking about are like... [1:05:02] stable and healthy and ready to handle like well they solved mental health yeah the very stable and mentally well and solves um solved depression um but yeah it's [1:05:18] I think it's something that people should be allowed to do, but... [1:05:21] I think people should... [1:05:22] not be turning to it as like the first line of like yeah [1:05:25] um, [1:05:26] socializing. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Um, what do you think of Sora?

[1:05:32] Oh, my God. Sora, so I played with Sora a little bit after... [1:05:37] the rights holders thing. Okay. Um, [1:05:40] I don't know if you guys have discussed this, but like, again, Sam Allman got yelled at and had to... [1:05:46] change it so you can't do copyrighted characters at all something happened with martin luther king like oh today really something happened like today or yesterday yeah i'm not you know them and i was like what do you think about people using mlk's likeness to like complain about copyright law yeah and they didn't reply maybe they got the email yeah exactly hmm [1:06:07] I should ping them again, but... [1:06:10] Story's just like, it's like humor for... [1:06:12] 14 year old boys. I don't know. It's, and it feels like that's, [1:06:16] A lot of like Gen AI as far as like the image stuff. Yeah. Yeah. [1:06:20] is very like, I can make... [1:06:22] Pikachu or... [1:06:23] and spider-man hang out it's like that's something that like yeah a middle schooler and that's all it is like jake paul jake paul doing a makeup tutorial totally is also where it is now yeah so kate and 14 year old boys um i also saw something from and it is i laughed at the first like [1:06:45] four times you see something like that. Like I laughed. I'm not above it at all. Yeah. So like very much lines with my humor, but then you see it like, [1:06:52] 20 more times and it loses everything. It's like, okay, yeah, like enough. Yes, totally move on from this. The most creative, [1:07:00] thing that I saw on there was actually posted by our friend,

[1:07:04] Dylan Aprescato and it was Mark Cuban and he was letting, you know, you can do the settings where anybody can use your likeness and he did everybody, but it had, I'm forgetting the name of his pharmaceutical company on it. But anytime anybody was using his likeness, it was an ad for his pharmaceutical company, which famously like his pharmaceutical company is, has got given access to many people to get medicine that they couldn't afford before. So I'm like, I don't know. I'm a [1:07:34] That's smart. That's really smart. I can get on board with that. If you're going to [1:07:40] be some a public figure like that like [1:07:43] Use it to your advantage. And yeah, in a thoughtful way. Okay. We do this thing called chill minute. [1:07:49] I don't know if you have anything you want to show. Oh my God. I thought I really was having a hard time with this because I'm, [1:07:53] lost the ability to show anything except for my own fucking website which i mean oh oh but you guys have showed that already no no no we could do that do four four no i mean subscribe to four four for sure that'll be my great show and your show three seconds i would think my show would be since we're talking about like privacy and stuff okay okay go time me okay um i think everyone should be on um [1:08:18] a service that erases your personal information from like data brokers and people finder sites. There's a bunch of these. I use Delete Me and I'm not going to show for them because they are an advertiser for 404 and they, they should pay me for that, but, um, they're great. And it's a service that, um,

[1:08:35] it finds wherever you're mentioned, and then you also can, like, set it to, like, family members, so, like, your parents, your partner, your roommate, anyone who has, like, [1:08:44] information about where you've lived in the past like 10 years. I put like college stuff in there and it's [1:08:50] it's supposed to find and erase that information from like, wow. Cause you can request to get that stuff taken off of like a, a people finder site or like these data broker sites. Yeah. But it takes fucking forever. Yeah. So do that. And also like, [1:09:02] do whatever sex workers are doing to protect yourself on the internet because they're the masters of this and they know how to do that the best. And they are definitely using those services and also like, um, sites that erase your like likeness from other places. [1:09:15] Perfect timing. Wow. Perfect timing. And a perfect show, too. Yeah, a really excellent show. Really wonderful. Sam, subscribe to 4-4. Yeah, for real. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you so much. It's such a delight. I really love your work. I read it all the time. Thank you. And it's just a pleasure to be able to talk to you about it. Yeah, thank you. Thanks. [1:09:31] I just skittered. There you go. See you later. Okay. Just a quick Gatorade break. Gatorade break. I, [1:09:42] think that we should [1:09:45] Oh, you shared your Chachi Petit, recent Chachi Petit history. Yeah, what's yours? Okay. Well, I wrote the newsletter today. Yeah. [1:09:53] So, yeah. [1:09:56] So let's it's definitely I'm going to skip all my grammar, grammar, grammar, grammar, grammar, and let us look at the past.

[1:10:06] Um, [1:10:09] Thank you. [1:10:10] Okay. Oh, you got one? [1:10:13] None that I'm willing to share. Okay, great. Then let's just quickly go to the... [1:10:21] Avi, [1:10:23] Heineken, [1:10:25] unexpected collab unexpected collab let's see it are you showing your screen yeah I'm showing my screen here so [1:10:33] uh loyal viewers will know that last week was it last week [1:10:36] We had on Avi Schiffman. Last time we were in the studio. We had on Avi Schiffman, who is the [1:10:43] founder of friend.com. He came on. [1:10:46] A lovely guy talked to us about his friend's invention. [1:10:53] And he was a real good sport. Let us read some very, very mean tweets. And he took it on the chin. So honestly, I had a new level of respect for him after that chat. Anyway, he's been all over the New York City subway. [1:11:09] system also LA too yeah crazy he did a huge media buyout to promote friend got [1:11:15] Um, [1:11:16] They got vandalized, as you can expect, and then the vandalism became also art and marketing. And then the guys from Danger Testing... [1:11:26] Did you see this? I didn't. Tell me. They created a tool app website. Mm-hmm. [1:11:33] Either one of those where you could vandalize it virtually. And then that was mentioned in the New York Times. So like it's it's so meta. We're layers. So many layers. And I just feel like all of this serves his ultimate purpose, which is to get people talking about friends.

[1:11:49] And then today or yesterday, a new level was reached, which was... [1:11:55] New level in luck. Totally. A Heineken... [1:11:59] Add. [1:12:00] billboard, [1:12:01] That says the best way to make a friend in italics is over a beer. And then it has kind of like a version of a friend. That's a very, it's clearly. I don't know what the little. An homage. [1:12:14] Oh, it's a bottle opener. [1:12:17] Oh, even. Wow. OK, that makes sense. And I guess it's on 42nd Street. [1:12:24] So huge win, honestly. Huge win for Avi. Congrats. Congrats. Exactly. The crowd is cheering. I think big validation for him. [1:12:34] This ad. [1:12:36] I don't know. I guess we're talking about it, but... [1:12:39] I don't know that this ad in particular is that. [1:12:43] um you don't need that ad innovative i guess except for that it's like [1:12:48] All right. [1:12:49] Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's referencing. OK. Our next guest here, Parker J. Patriot Patriot. [1:12:59] Pajarat. Come up on stage. We love. Come on down. Parker is lead consumer, leads consumer partnerships at that base and is a friend. And the first, we were talking about this before you got here, the first [1:13:14] Boys Club [1:13:16] The first boy. The first boy ever. Founding boy. Wow, you look so great. You look beautiful.

[1:13:27] um [1:13:28] And yeah, just someone I cannot love more. Welcome. Welcome to the show. [1:13:33] Thank you. [1:13:34] It's very Watch What Happens Live inspired, which I don't know if anybody knows the references. I don't know that Parker would. Is her mic okay? [1:13:46] Thank you. [1:13:46] Thank you. [1:13:48] Great. Great. How's it going? Great. Wonderful. Great. So happy to see you guys. Do you have any draft tweets to start? It's a good warm up. I do. And... [1:14:00] I may have one or two. Okay, great. Let's go. Let's do it. I was really debating about this, but I'm just going to do the [1:14:06] Most recent two in my draft. Great. Okay, great. [1:14:09] Because you have a lot. You have a lot drafted. Yeah, I do. Uh-huh. You draw you. I can see that. I can see you drafting and not sending. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. [1:14:17] Here's the first one. [1:14:19] The inability to date [1:14:22] dance or socialize without alcohol. [1:14:26] It's a skill issue. I like it. I agree. And I think it's true. I think you're right. And I think you should send that one. [1:14:33] um that's a good one parker [1:14:41] Thank you. Okay, number two. [1:14:44] and happy to elaborate on any of these points. [1:14:46] Propaganda I'm not falling for. Okay, great. Love this format. Pop-up shops. Oh, okay. Yeah. TikTok. Oh, wow. Electric vehicles or what I like to call big EV. Okay.

[1:15:01] Standing in line. [1:15:03] Okay, I'm with you. Self-infantilization, so like when people are like adulting. Oh, ew, yeah, that's a good one. And performative activism. [1:15:13] Oh, wow. Wow. Parker. Okay. An unexpected one in there around EVs. As a pro technology person, tell me more about that. [1:15:22] take? I'm pro tech, but the tech has to actually work. Okay. And this summer I was in Italy renting a car. [1:15:30] And, you know, [1:15:31] It failed to work. It was an electric vehicle. It failed to work. My fiance and I were driving for literally eight hours from charging station to charging station. [1:15:43] And none of them worked. And so it resulted in a situation where we had to like postpone our flight and like stay an extra day in this area. [1:15:59] I also think... [1:16:01] that [1:16:02] Electric vehicles... [1:16:04] they're not designed for a road trip. [1:16:07] That's what I've heard from people. It's true. We're stretching it with that. This wasn't really a road trip. It was more just like a short [1:16:13] It was supposed to be a short drive. Okay. Well, can I show for a moment? Because our friend has a EV [1:16:19] I don't want to out her for having one, but like, I've been driving in her EV. And okay, Miranda has an EV. Miranda has an EV. I love this EV. I love that word. And I love the self-identification. Now everyone knows Miranda. And she loves it. She loves it. And I will say, I've been driving in it with her.

[1:16:40] And, you know, [1:16:41] She lives in a... [1:16:43] a suburb north of the city. I won't dox your location, Miranda, but, um, [1:16:49] in and out of the city. [1:16:51] You come into the city, you do your thing, you go back upstate, you plug in the vehicle overnight. It's like incredible for that type of. [1:16:59] For that type of movement and for that type of usage. And never once have I been to a gas station with her and I've driven her car a lot at this point. So I will say that the technology exists and the use case exists, but perhaps in Italy in the countryside, maybe. [1:17:13] I like hearing... [1:17:15] I like hearing that. [1:17:18] Okay. Okay. Let's jump into it. We have, um, a lot of things we want to talk to you about today. Yeah. Um, I think we should start with Gen Z investing habits. Okay. And you sent me some notes about this. I, uh, would love to hear you. [1:17:32] talk about it, I do want to get into the [1:17:35] Buy Now, Pay Later phenomenon and the article that we talked about. But would love for you to just kind of give your thesis, your overview. [1:17:44] Yeah, so... [1:17:46] I've been thinking about this a lot. I love the Wall Street Journal. And I was recently reading an interesting article that said that today, 40% of 25 year olds have an active investment account, whether it's like stock trading, crypto, casual. [1:18:03] And 10 years ago in 2014, [1:18:06] only 6% of 25-year-olds had an active investment account.

[1:18:11] And that's a pretty crazy gap. So it begs the question why. And one popular hypothesis is that housing today is very expensive. So we're [1:18:23] young people used to invest in housing or property more, that now feels out of reach for them. So, [1:18:32] their capital into stocks, crypto, casual investing. [1:18:37] I think there's something missing, though, from that hypothesis. And I think it's the fact that, [1:18:43] investing and trading is [1:18:45] primarily a social activity. If you look at where active investors and traders [1:18:52] are going and what they're doing online. They're in, you know, Telegram group chats, they're in Discord, they're on Reddit. And so it's a very social environment. [1:19:02] and virtual first [1:19:03] thing where people are sharing ideas, sharing the highs and lows of their investment strategy. And so my thesis is that because Gen Z is so virtual first today, [1:19:15] The ideas and concepts around investing are proliferating faster. And there's more connectivity around that. So it's leading to more people to invest. That makes sense to me. I also think that... [1:19:28] The... [1:19:29] the ease and trust of exchanges like a Robinhood or a Coinbase or that's become so it's made it so straightforward and you're not needing to call a broker or sign on to like, I don't know, a Fidelity account or something like that. It's like really you can...

[1:19:45] Anybody could be a day trader at this point. Yeah. And so I think that both of those things, I think you're right that it's like a social activity. And I think there's a disillusionment around, um, [1:19:56] wealth building that [1:19:58] was possible generations prior and all of those things sort of leading to this like [1:20:03] I know there's a lot of studies around that, [1:20:06] Gen Z and young millennials and, [1:20:09] A huge part of why they online gamble is because they're like, this is the only way that I'm going to like have some sort of outsized wealth. [1:20:17] moment for myself because it's no longer this like steady financial system that you can trust. [1:20:23] So that makes a ton of sense. I think also the social aspect of it. [1:20:28] does go into it. [1:20:30] the buy now pay later [1:20:32] article, which was essentially this New York Times article that was titled, They Got to Live a Life of Luxury, Then Came the Fine Print. And it basically covers... [1:20:43] the main premise of this story is following a young woman, [1:20:46] who's now in her 30s, but talks about [1:20:48] how she went into insane... [1:20:51] credit card debt and Klarna debt when in her early twenties and how that happened and sort of following her story. And I, [1:21:00] And then... [1:21:01] some data around how common this is, which is really sad, and where it's rooted in, which is [1:21:09] basically like [1:21:11] You TikTok... [1:21:13] lifestyle wanting to show wealth online and now having the ability to do that with like

[1:21:20] payments that are feel free but are certainly not so anyway i'm curious like if you're seeing that and what [1:21:26] what you think about that article. Yeah, I think, I mean, I think it's a super interesting article. That's really illuminating, like how people are spending, how young people are spending their money today. [1:21:37] And. [1:21:38] the mechanisms they're using to participate in consumerism. I think a lot of consumerism for Gen Z today, especially for women, is very performative. And it's almost like, [1:21:51] consumerism is becoming an identity for a large subset of people, especially like in these realms of like TikTok, for example, where it's like, oh, this is what I'm buying. This is what I'm wearing. I'm obsessed with this new product. And it's like, [1:22:05] consumerism isn't a personality trait. Like it's so fun to shop and be into different types of things, whether it's fashion, beauty, furniture, etc. [1:22:15] But I think people are really identifying with people [1:22:18] consumerism to signal like an in-group status in certain trends. Even like, for example, in the West Village where I live, every single girl has the same like kind of lobster fishnet shoes. I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about, the ballet flats. And it's like crazy to see these trends just come and go so fast and see that be proliferated on social media. And I think [1:22:48] understand the risks of or the terms of what they're engaging with with buy now pay leader. Yeah, I will say one like just sort of devil's advocate is that.

[1:23:02] Like when I read this article, I was like, well, that's... [1:23:05] And there's a bunch of predatory things that the – [1:23:09] company, [1:23:10] And that category of financial services company does. That is awful and we should look at and probably regulate. Yeah. But... [1:23:19] shopping addiction has always existed. And that type of, that expression of mental illness, honestly, like has... [1:23:27] It's been with us for a while. So I don't want to like unfairly villainize. Like I do, I do think that the predatory aspects need to be, [1:23:36] like tap down for sure but [1:23:38] There's also a part of me that's like, man... [1:23:40] was that woman always going to find a way [1:23:43] Whether through credit card debt or whatever. I think two things around that. One is that in the article, she said her Visa credit card had a strict 2000 monthly spending limit. But Klarna alone offered her a $12,000 limit to use at any given time. [1:23:59] And so I think [1:24:00] Yes, and. Yeah, totally. It's just... [1:24:04] proliferated this problem in such a major way. And then I think to what you're speaking of, I think like trends and consumerism and signaling with things that you buy has always, you know, [1:24:13] been something that people have done, but I actually put this tweet in the newsletter [1:24:18] And I think speaks to this at Dolly Soul Siren tweeted this five years ago. So a while ago, but said, IDK had explained, but TikTok is making people switch up style and aesthetics so quickly. And as a result, leading to rapid consumerism. They're literally the fast fashion. It is literally the fast fashion structure. Buy it when it's cute and alt.

[1:24:40] and then dump it and repeat the cycle. And I think... [1:24:44] to many... [1:24:45] TikTok has done this in many cases, but I think specifically in consumerism has made this like – [1:24:50] fast thing going. [1:24:52] about buying as well, not just watching and consuming. I agree. And I also think it kind of goes back to what you were saying before about the barriers to entry being lower, and the friction being reduced in terms of [1:25:06] When you were saying how people can invest, it's the same with now how people can buy. And so... [1:25:13] like the technology and [1:25:15] the offering is right there. And it's just so much lower friction to choose to do that. All it takes is like a split second. [1:25:23] decision. Whereas before, like getting alone was so much more difficult and [1:25:30] rigorous and time intensive. [1:25:33] Okay, tell us about, you're working in crypto every day. Tell us about your thoughts on crypto. [1:25:41] how crypto adoption is shifting right now. [1:25:45] Great question. So 20% of Americans use crypto or hold some form of crypto today. [1:25:53] Um, [1:25:54] I think right now we're really at [1:25:57] breakthrough moment for crypto adoption, particularly for enterprises, institutions, commerce, different kinds of businesses. And that's super interesting. [1:26:09] exciting to see. It really feels like we're moving into a new chapter. Like Shopify has enabled USDC payments on base. JP Morgan is experimenting with tokenizing customer deposits. Even the Metropolitan Museum of Art, like a very cultural institution, is experimenting in

[1:26:30] engaging their audience in new ways on chain. And I think it's a really [1:26:36] important moment for the industry and something that I feel like in my time in crypto, I haven't seen before. [1:26:44] Amen. I love to see it. [1:26:48] Do you think, I think, [1:26:50] I know this of you, and I think for both of us, one of the things that has drawn us to crypto initially was this like – [1:26:56] sort of anti-establishment, um, [1:27:00] Sentiment. [1:27:02] the ideals around decentralization. And I think that it's amazing to see institutions getting involved. It's amazing to see like mass adoption happening and sort of this, [1:27:12] move towards it being more common. Do you think something is lost in... [1:27:19] no longer sort of having... [1:27:22] the [1:27:23] moving away from, I guess, the initial principles that drew us into the industry. [1:27:28] That's a great question. And no, I think technology, my philosophy is that technology is inherently neutral. Right. So it's all about how we use it. And while we're moving into, I would say, a phase of crypto and blockchain adoption that is more neutral. [1:27:47] commercialized, enterprise, institutional, [1:27:51] there's still very much alive and well the degenerate side of crypto that's working against those establishments. And both can exist at the same time.

[1:28:02] And I think just because we're seeing [1:28:06] the opening of, you know, a possibility of a wider target addressable market for crypto in this enterprise and institutional adoption, it won't make the like OG believers or, you know, the pro- [1:28:21] DeFi degenerate people go away like that's going to remain strong. In my opinion, I think it might grow at less of a faster rate of onboarding or onboarding and adoption than the enterprise side, which will be more under the hood. But I think both can exist at the same time. [1:28:39] It's a yes and it's improv. Okay. Last note here is around fertility. I know this is a topic that you're very passionate about. What I just have fertility here as a note. Tell me here what you're thinking about. [1:28:54] Yeah, so... [1:28:55] If you've been online, you've seen the discourse. I've never been there. I don't know her. I'm sure... [1:29:01] that you've seen the discourse on... [1:29:03] Like, [1:29:04] birth rates being in decline, fertility being in decline, [1:29:08] Um. [1:29:09] People are posting charts. [1:29:11] But people are posting charts. They sure are posting charts, though. Like, I've seen so many charts, birth rate charts that I'm like, man, okay, like, we got to stop with the birth rate charts. Also, I'm like, I yeah, that starts to I I start to wonder how like that like, [1:29:28] valid, true, accurate, [1:29:30] whatever anyway keep going yeah so i think like the charts don't lie but at the same time i think we need to take a step back because a lot of people are posting charts without understanding what they mean and a lot of people are using these terms fertility and birth rates interchangeably and they're actually not the same thing and i think to like get a more nuanced understanding of what actually is happening in our society we need to like distinguish and define those terms so like fertility

[1:29:58] Um, [1:30:00] in my opinion, in definition, is the ability to reproduce, the ability to conceive. It's true that fertility has been declining for both men and women over the past 10 to 20 years in America, aka infertility has been on the rise. At the same time, and separately, birth rates are the amount of children a woman is having, right, on average. And that has also been declining. But there are [1:30:30] there are a lot of people who maybe are having trouble reproducing or conceiving that want to have kids. There are also a lot of people that... [1:30:39] have the ability to... [1:30:41] conceive naturally healthily and are choosing to not have kids or delaying having kids um and so i just think that's like an important nuance to bring into the conversation yeah necessarily yeah [1:30:54] Okay, that makes sense. [1:30:56] Okay, I also have a note here, related misconceptions of right-wing slash trad wives. Yes. [1:31:04] Very passionate about this. [1:31:07] There's been a lot of discourse as well about trad wives. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like Ballerina Farm... [1:31:14] Nora, et cetera, et cetera. [1:31:17] I just think we need more representation of Tradwives because we're only seeing one archetype. We're seeing the stay-at-home mom, like, make butter from scratch, like, have 12 kids. And while- Do you know that Ballerine Farms has 12 children?

[1:31:31] I didn't know that. I did. Anyway, but there's a lot. There's a lot that can be said. There's a lot that can be said, but yeah. There's a lot of ballerina farm lore. Yeah, totally. [1:31:42] But I just think, [1:31:44] generally like we should see more representation in the trad wife community in terms of like what we're seeing online i wanted to raise awareness about that because there is a large like [1:31:57] demographic of trad wives that are like stay at home moms, which is like amazing. [1:32:01] But there are also many child wives that are in the workforce and like, whether it's by necessity or choice. Um, [1:32:08] You're really giving Trad Wife today with your headband. [1:32:11] Thank you. You did great. Bringing headbands back. I'd also like to raise awareness of tradwebs. How, if, okay. [1:32:19] noted heard but if all of these people are trad wives like what what isn't what isn't a trad wife [1:32:26] Like by that definition, [1:32:29] I might be a trad wife and I certainly don't think that I consider myself that. Yeah, that's super valid. I think... [1:32:41] Maybe a trad wife is what you make of it. I think trad wives are kind of a self-ident... I would need to think more. I don't want to answer that on the spot. But what I will say is that I think trad wives are the general... [1:32:56] like, [1:32:57] archetype or perception of them is kind of espousing family, espousing family,

[1:33:05] a marital unit espousing [1:33:08] pro-natalism, um, [1:33:12] And I think there's there's a range within that. Right. So I think we should draw more attention to like the spectrum. If you are interested in like a deeper dive into this, I was reading a really interesting Wall Street Journal article that actually inspired me to bring this up that goes into women who identify as trad wives, but are working like extremely high profile, difficult jobs in the government. [1:33:39] So I thought that was an interesting piece and. [1:33:41] Wanted to draw attention there. I love it. Okay. You have, I mean, maybe your show minute was Chad Wyving, but you have a show minute. Yes. Oh, you're going to do your bag. Yeah. I'd love to show. Great. Let's see. I'd love to do it in your bag. I love a bag. A show. Parker's going to show us what's in her bag. [1:33:58] Um, and I can't wait to see. Okay. I'm so excited. So. [1:34:05] Um, what's in my bag? I have my lip gloss. Uh-huh. This is nice. Oh. Moisturizing. You got a, yep. Nice. [1:34:14] L'Ange. [1:34:15] Laneige. Great. Classic. Um... [1:34:18] I also have my wired headphones. Mm-hmm. [1:34:23] I carry this pumpkin everywhere. This is my good luck pumpkin. If I go into a meeting without this, it's like jinxed. So my pumpkin stays strapped on me. I did not see that coming. Wow. Okay. What's the purpose?

[1:34:39] Just festive season. [1:34:41] In fall. Fall is when the witches come out. And there's like good witchcraft, but there's also bad witchcraft. But if you have a pumpkin, it kind of acts as like an aura shield. And so I recommend, especially for like business purposes, like don't go into a business meeting without this. Okay, heard. The other thing I wanted to... [1:35:02] shares this great book, Setting the Table by Danny Meyer. Oh, it's a great book. [1:35:12] Danny Meyer, an exceptional business. It's a classic. If you want to learn more about New York City, [1:35:19] restaurant history and entrepreneurship. Read this book. Also, I just found out that Cafe Pana [1:35:26] Sorry to take away from you. No, no. Cafe Pana, which is a very famous ice cream shop here in New York. [1:35:32] is Danny Meyer's [1:35:34] daughter. Which, wait, wait. I love, no, no, I love a Nepo baby. [1:35:41] That... [1:35:42] has done something great. It's a great business. It's an incredible product. And I'm like, if you're going to be a Nepo baby, [1:35:48] do something great. Yeah. And she has done that. And so I respect that a lot. Anyway, I had no idea. That's so much more, so much more. [1:35:55] Okay. Anything else in the bag? [1:35:57] or is that it wow yeah really great parker thank you so much for having on what a wide range of topics we've covered here but love you so much thanks parker thank you okay that is our show

[1:36:14] Any parting words, Natasha? [1:36:18] The parting words are going to be, [1:36:21] that we... [1:36:23] are going to be here next week. Mm-hmm. [1:36:28] We're going to have a fun lineup of guests. And then we are taking a week off. Yes. So that's something for people to note. Yep. The other things that I'll say is that we're going to be at DevConnect in November. And if you would like to be at DevConnect with us, which I... [1:36:44] Highly recommend. Totally. High recommendation. High. Yes. The highest. You can hit partnerships at boysclub.vip. Nice. That's my show minute. Great. Anything for you to ask? No. Jay asked, is that cool blue Gatorade or the base juice, which is a really funny, really funny comment. We're trying to get sponsored by Gatorade. You have to... [1:37:04] And Red Bull and Prime, really any energy, any of the energy drinks, whatever. [1:37:11] Yeah, you hit us up, partnerships at boysclub.vip. [1:37:17] We genuinely drink it, like genuinely. [1:37:24] Mm hmm. So we've gotten quite a few people hooked. Okay, thanks so much. What a pleasure to be here. [1:37:31] That's our show. Bye. [1:37:35] Okay. That was CBH. Join us live on Twitter every Wednesday at noon. Or here, I guess.