Ep: 206: FWB Fest Recap, Guest: Alyssa Vingan on Sl*tty Menwear & Fashion Marketing, Guest: Willem Van Lancker on AI, Taste & Craft, Bullish IPO plans, A nuclear reactor on the moon, Tristan Thompson in the White House, 16 Handles Frozen Yogurt Reboot

[00:29] Here's this week's show. [00:31] you [00:33] How's it going? [00:34] It's going beautifully and wonderfully. How about you? So good. Blake, we haven't had a chance to talk about Canada. [00:42] of [00:43] You're right because you were just in Banff. I was just in Banff. Uh-huh. And [00:49] I [00:51] First of all, loved it. And have you been to you've been to Banff, I assume? I have. I have. Yes. [00:56] um [00:57] I fell in love with Alberta. It's in Alberta, right? Yeah, which I'm going to tell you, [01:02] Mm-hmm. [01:03] We don't want to get into politics on this podcast. I don't know. I also just want to preface it by saying I know nothing about, I know there's a lot of the Canadian flag, sensitivities, maple leaf, all of that national, I know nothing about the politics. [01:16] Interprovincial politics are at an all-time high, not at an all-time high when you look at history, but at a generational high, I would say. Tensions? Correct. [01:27] Alberta is the most. Yes. Okay. [01:31] Yes. Okay. [01:32] Yes. I'll just say, you know, they're looking, they, there's a separatist movement at the moment. Didn't think I was going to get into that on this podcast. Yes, there is. Separating how? They're right in the middle of it.

[02:02] red, they always, what we call blue. So it's just, it's a very unique setup for Alberta, influenced mostly by the big oil money that has, you know, come into the province in the last [02:18] 40 years, 30 years. Okay. Well, I was very charmed by Alberta. That's what I love to hear. Listen, I'm an Alberta fan myself, you know, Banff being the top of the list. Banff is a crown jewel. Um, yeah, I will say I haven't, I didn't, we were fluent to Calgary and went to Banff. So didn't spend much time. [02:36] in Alberta, except for in those two places, Calgary. [02:40] Yeah, yeah. [02:42] Yeah. Denver-ish, I would say. That was kind of my impression. Correct. Yes. [02:46] But... [02:47] uh [02:49] Yeah, I just feel as though at least Banff deserves its flowers. What a spot. It really does. It's super, super underrated. One of the most beautiful places I have ever been. So absolutely agree, politics aside. [03:06] Well, yeah, politics aside, [03:09] I also didn't know some behind the scenes breaking the fourth wall. Dean and I were texting about grocery stores in Canada, specifically in Alberta. And I was like, you got to go to Whole Foods. That's where you're going to get your best snacks. They don't have Whole Foods in Alberta, which. [03:24] shook me. No, we went to something called the Real Canadian Superstore. [03:29] And it was a very different vibe. That's a very different vibe.

[03:36] But anyway, the one thing I'll say about Calgary is that we went at the tail end of what I believe is a pretty big deal there, which is the stampede. Largest stampede, I believe, in the world. [03:47] So... [03:48] um it was very like i don't know if this is actually the vibe in calgary or if it was just unique to the time that we went but i would say [03:56] at least in the hotel that we checked in at it was like [03:59] one out of every three people had a cowboy hat on. And [04:04] But is that like just the vibe or is that a stampeding thing? That certainly is the vibe, but obviously stampede takes it up like 10 times and people are performing. [04:15] Cowboys for the purpose of the Stampede. It's one of like the biggest events in the country. Okay. Yeah. Well, I have a cowboy. [04:26] What's that? I have been and Nickelback headline last year. So that's all that's like if you want the vibes. I just that's what you need to know. That's what you need to know. OK, so thanks, everyone, for tuning in. We have a standing co-host, the beautiful Blake Finucane today. Natasha is out sick. [04:43] So [04:44] Blake, welcome to-- [04:45] the live stream. [04:47] I am so excited to be here. Very different. [04:51] energy and i feel like um demand being live so i know i'm hoping i meet the bar try not to think about it yeah yeah yeah just flow just three um okay so let's go through some agenda items here and then we'll get into it uh so first of all just what is boys club uh i'll tell you today um please do we we we we jump back and forth on this one but boys club is one part

[05:17] indie media company where we talk about tech and we talk about culture and how the twine meet and [05:25] One part community that hangs out together online and in person and and [05:31] Anything else you would add into sort of the definition of Boys Club, having been there from the start? [05:37] I would say... [05:40] that put me on the spot. I would just say that there is like a element of bringing in [05:49] a [05:51] like when you say culture, I would say like specifically there is a, um, [05:57] interaction between fun and intelligence in a way that is very unique. [06:03] That's what I'll say. Nice. Maybe at the intersection of fun and intelligence. Exactly. [06:12] Quick shout out to Polygon who support this live stream. If you've touched crypto in any way, chances are you've already used Polygon. It's the chain quietly powering a bunch of stuff that actually works, that people actually use, like Stripe's crypto payments, betting on Polymarkets, prediction markets, and a bunch more. We love Polygon. Thank you so much. [06:30] to those folks for supporting the team is incredible quickly on the agenda and then we'll get into it blake's gonna give us a little uh friends with benefits fest recap i we haven't debriefed about this so i'm dying to know what took place in the woods of california uh again it's a little bit about bullish peter teal's uh exchange they're uh filed for an ipo we're gonna talk about that for a bit we have two very special guests uh alissa vingen on um some fun fashion

[07:00] a Man Can Wear, which she just published yesterday in GQ magazine. We're going to talk about that. And just sort of generally how brand campaigns are evolving in this new age of influence that we're living in. And then Willem van Lanker is going to come on and talk about his piece, which is about sort of craft and finding friction in an age of AI. Then we have some quick hits, NASA, Tristan Thompson, Froyo, the Holy Trinity of stories there. Yes. Okay. So let's jump in [07:30] days in the woods with a bunch of internet friends this past weekend in California for friends with benefits. [07:36] Tell me, tell me, tell me more. [07:38] It was so fun. I... [07:42] never get back from a conference or from any crypto event leading with fun. [07:49] It was a great time, Kate and I, who is fully featured in these pics. It was fantastic in terms of [07:59] I do think in terms of a crypto conference, I don't think that's the right term. I don't think it is either. I don't think it is either. A crypto event. Okay. [08:07] It's super, super unique in terms of the energy that people are bringing. I think the openness and what people are trying to have conversations about. It's not about selling. It's not about chilling genuinely. [08:20] The activations were so cool. Genuinely, the highlight activation was called emotional alchemy. I need to highlight this. I need. Yes.

[08:31] as there's a perfect slide, [08:34] Thank you. [08:35] illustrating kind of what it is. You see the photos here if you are watching right now. So it was fully like a sensory activation where if you can, there's a little screen, it's all prompted by AI, it starts with a question, and it leads you through a series of prompts, and it creates a scent. [08:54] to remind you of a memory that you're talking about to the AI. It's by this brilliant, brilliant person named Tigris, who you also see on screen. The prompt that I got was the first prompt was, what was one thing you would tell yourself [09:12] as a kid that you truly wish you knew now or that you knew then. [09:17] But everyone got different prompts. I actually found myself getting very emotional. Yeah. Not to put you on the spot, but where'd you go? Where'd you land there? Oh my gosh. It was very specific about take this certain course in college. [09:35] You went tactical. I went tactical because I knew that I would never listen to myself. So I needed something like, I hope she would do this. If she knew this, I hope she would just do something a little bit different. [09:47] Um, I know Kate's question was, um, what like book or piece of media has been the most impactful for you in your life? So everyone had different questions. Um, I've never, you know, and I've seen a lot of art in my, in my day and, uh, it was a, it was a very, very unique experience. Um, so that was really fun. I got an astrology reading. I know there's some astrology haters

[10:17] I mean, the musicians were fantastic. Kamasi Washington brought out his wife to sing. His four-year-old daughter was dancing by the side of the stage. His dad played the flute. It was like so beautiful. [10:31] So for folks who aren't familiar with the format, it's like programming during the day, talks and panels about sort of the new internet and crypto kind of is adjacent to that conversation. I wouldn't say it's like the primary thrust of what happens there. But very smart people talking about very like futurist stuff, designing and new internet, I think is kind of how I would define it. And then at night there's music, musical. And it's all like in the woods of [11:02] of like the mountains of California. - Yeah, very desert. It was like, again, [11:08] don't know what this is in American terms. It was like 30 degrees, like 100 probably. And yeah, just it's a very special environment. There was a film screening called Any Problem is No Problem. It's A16Z's. [11:25] um new film that they did um basically um they picked three different companies from their their um like incubator their startup incubator to follow and i work with some of the people in the movie so um shout out adam from blueprint um so [11:44] you know, just there's, there's, there's, there's truly, it's like a multimedia conference. You can go like watch movies that haven't really debuted yet. There was an A24 screening there. Yeah. There was obviously music, there's art installations that you can interact with. There's talks again, that are like very smart. Yeah. He was really excited by this guy named Nolita Dirtbag,

[12:14] when it comes to [12:16] excuse the term, technology, and you'll find something there. And it's really like, [12:24] again this is maybe an eye roll but it's like really inspiring because it's actually fun and you're actually learning stuff that's new um so [12:33] Every year I've gone, it's been a gift. Obviously, the people I'm spending time with, that's what makes it most special. Boys Club being the biggest part of that. But it's a really unique conference in the crypto tech sphere. [12:49] Yeah. Well, congratulations to that team. [12:51] on another successful year. [12:53] happy for them. And yeah, the photos were incredible. I was living vicariously through you two. [13:02] A lot of blogs and stuff up on the Boys Club account. If you guys haven't watched them, certainly worth watching. Come check it out. OK, we're going to bring Alyssa up to jump into some fun stuff here. We're going to push-- we're going to punt Peter Thiel to the end. Unfortunately, we can define how that goes. Hi, Alyssa. Hi. Thanks for having me. Welcome. [13:27] Happy to be here. Okay. So Alyssa is currently before, before we started the stream, told me that she's currently in a man cave. Her father's in my dad's man cave right now. You might see the Grateful Dead posters behind me. There's a Jerry Garcia oil painting over there. I'm in Virginia at my parents' house. So that's like thematically perfect for what we're talking about in a lot of

[13:57] Alyssa, a fashion writer and editor. Um, Alyssa is the host of the new guard pod, um, former editor and chief chief of nylon magazine and fashionista.com. Um, Alyssa, we were going to talk about, and we will talk about, um, [14:12] fashion and brands and campaigns and marketing and sort of the new world of influence that we're finding ourselves in. But before we do, you published this piece yesterday on GQ that we must spend some time on. [14:25] which is called, "What's the sluttiest thing a man can wear?" Let's start there. Let's talk me through your process here. - Okay, so I cannot take credit for this idea. My editor texted me one day because I think the GQ edit meeting had a lively discussion on this topic, which I'm sure if you scroll X or TikTok long enough, you'll see some like memes in this format, like what's the sluttiest thing a man can do. [14:53] For like, what's the such thing a man could wear? And he was like, I want you to get to the bottom of it. So I think I did. [15:01] I will say just, [15:05] reporting this story was a little bit difficult. I think I like DMed. [15:10] 20 to 25 people asking for opinions. I've never been left on scene so many times. I didn't know if people didn't think they had a clever answer for this or whatever. But luckily, I think it just took a little longer than I expected. People didn't want to go on the record on this topic, which is unfortunate. I would have definitely, if you had DMed me, I would have 100% weighed in.

[15:40] so too. I think we really brought it home at the end. And it's funny because the last [15:45] reported story I wrote for GQ was about [15:48] speedos like, or will this be the summer of the speedo among straight guys in America? Which as we're nearing the end of summer. [15:56] And like I'm in Virginia Beach right now, like, [15:59] Virginia Beach is not a place you'll probably ever see a speedo on a straight man unless they're going to swim practice. But yeah, it's just funny that this has been my beat. But for the slutty menswear story, I think the overarching theme of the responses was like, [16:15] There's performative sluttiness, which is kind of like the photos you have on the screen here with like, obviously, Pedro Pascal is flexing in that photo. And obviously, Alexander Skarsgård knows like people are going to be objectifying him in his daddy leather pants, you know, but a stylist was probably paid to put these outfits together. This wasn't like [16:36] out of their own like spirit of sluttiness. And that was, I think, [16:41] what makes something really slutty is when it just like comes from within it's natural you're not trying too hard you don't you don't want to be objectified necessarily you don't want people to like [16:52] I don't know. And there's this other thing in fashion that's happening right now that I think we'll talk about in the next segment as well. It's like, [17:00] the attention economy is such that like you really have to do something extreme to get people talking about you. So like when Paul Mascow wore those really short shorts at the Gucci show, like every headline about that Gucci show, I think it was last

[17:15] summer was like about these short shorts. [17:19] And I feel like the same could be said about Alexander Skarsgård in Cannes, because not only did he wear those leather pants, he wore a pair of like Saint Laurent thigh high. Mm hmm. [17:30] Yeah. So I think that people can tell when you're just wearing something like that. So people will [17:38] you know, do clickbait articles about you, make TikToks about you. I don't know. But then if you, like, go further down and you have, you know, Jon Hamm in his sweatpants or this Balenciaga look that's, like, very, yes, this latter part right here where Tom Holland just has that, like, very small sliver [17:59] of stomach showing when he raises his arm like [18:02] That's slutty. Totally. Do we feel like this is a stylist designed look here in the white tee and the jeans? Or does that feel like intentionally? [18:12] it doesn't feel like that to me, like maybe a stylist like helped him pick out the clothes but I don't think [18:20] that he was planning to go out there and show that little bit of [18:24] ab, you know? Right. And so this one with Nicholas Holt and the [18:31] this whole thing, this whole press tour that he did, I will admit it was really working for me with the bleach blonde hair, all the tank tops. This is a Prada bag. And then there's another look of his where he's like all black and wearing like a Bottega bag. And you can tell he's just like flexing. Right. And I think the general consensus among the people I talked to for this story was like, that's too easy.

[18:54] This guy is obviously going to [18:57] show off his very toned arms tank top. [19:03] The Jonathan Bailey shorts here, I think that was [19:07] genuinely surprising to people like it's very rare aside from the palmas scale moment that came the year before that we just looked at. I feel like this doesn't happen very much among men on the red carpet so people in these shorts I would dare say are a little bit shorter than Paul's. [19:23] Yeah, Gary would say. I think so too. In Paul's paparazzi shots, I feel like he's always wearing the little three or four-inch running shorts. So that wasn't like... [19:34] really that shocking to anybody. And then this I feel has the peak sluttiness of the piece because it's just like [19:45] you're really just letting it all hang out if you're wearing like sweatpants or sport shorts with nothing underneath and you're just going about your day and like maybe someone clocks that you're not wearing underwear and then like, I mean, I don't think this is the... [19:59] the famous, infamous [20:02] Jon Hamm [20:04] It's not. I can confirm. [20:09] But what I will say here, I feel like the lesson is [20:13] When it feels too considered and when it feels too planned or when it feels too costum-y or too styled, then it's fine for a certain thing, perhaps for a red carpet photo, but it's not going to get the same level of...

[20:27] um, [20:28] It's not as titillating. I thought it was ranking. Yeah. It's not as titillating. I feel like... [20:34] the mystery is [20:36] a little bit gone, especially as if you're someone like me who. By nature of their work has to pay very close attention to like red carpets and all of that, like you can kind of tell when. [20:49] a stylist like pulled a full look from a runway show and like you've seen that look before on a very thin model on a runway but now you're seeing in like a buff actor you know just like a [21:00] doesn't hit the same as like [21:02] this Adam Sandler kind of vibe. Let's pivot then now to sort of how this impacts the business of fashion and how these brands that are like, honestly, a lot of this is like pretty intentional for, okay, let's say you mentioned who makes this bag and I'm sure me not knowing is [21:21] stupid, but that that's all is all part of sort of the game of it right now. Can you talk a little bit more about your thinking on on sort of brands and how they're showing up right now? [21:32] Yeah, so... [21:34] This could I could talk about this for days, so I'm going to try to keep it very top level here. But like, [21:39] celebrities like this are often paid to show off these things on the red carpet so like this bag I know is Prada but he's also like carried Bottega and I think there's certain designer celebrity pairings that you can tell like this person's an ambassador like [21:55] when we were talking about Palmas gal before he was at the Gucci show and he definitely had some sort of deal with Gucci. I forget what if it was like an official capacity, like if he was an ambassador, but generally like

[22:08] There's a lot of [22:09] you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours kind of thing. There's definitely money exchange, like a very little that you see from a fashion perspective, whether that be celebrities on red carpet, influencers on TikTok or Instagram. Very little of that is organic. A lot of it is there's been money exchange. So I would. [22:29] be willing to guess that for this nickel of Nicholas Holt photo, either Prada paid his stylist to [22:38] have him [22:39] where these product pieces because it's, you know, a big world stage, all these paparazzi photos that everyone is seeing in the aftermath. Or, you know, [22:50] I forget if Nicholas Holt was in a product campaign or if he's an ambassador. So like he would be paid and as part of his payment, he's getting product and, you know, [23:00] his free pieces that he seeded, he'll, you know, of course, wear them when he knows he's going to be photographed. [23:05] Is there a different relationship? Like, are the stakes less high or are they significantly different for placing men with brands versus women? Like, or is it... [23:17] Quite similar. [23:19] You know, I feel like men's in the last decade or so has become just as competitive as a market as women's. I think that Men's Fashion Week, which just happened in June, June into July, I think people are paying really close attention to that now.

[23:49] Thank you. [23:49] Louave a Bottega Prada like there are certain brands that don't do men's yet like Chanel doesn't I [23:56] necessarily do an official men's line yet but i think their new creative director is going to start rolling that out and jacob alordi keeps wearing it you know for sure and like [24:07] Jacob Elordi is a really good example because he had a very close relationship with Bottega, like right when he was at his peak like Elvis fame. [24:17] right was that no not elvis um [24:20] - Yes, Priscilla. - Priscilla, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Sorry, right person, wrong movie. But yeah, I think, [24:29] Women's, there's also just so much. There are so many women's wear brands. For men, I think it's a bit of a tighter edit, so the competition might be a little bit more fierce. But a really good example is Harry Styles. When he... [24:43] went solo and he was very good friends with Alessandra Michele who was at Gucci but now he's at Valentino like he kind of worked his way up to a Gucci collaboration but like he did the custom clothes for the tour and then he was in an ad campaign and then there was the you know Harry for Gucci collection so I think these things kind of [25:04] gradually grow and [25:06] I think consumers can tell when things feel organic and when it's being forced. But I think the forced partnerships thing happens a lot more frequently. [25:15] in womenswear. [25:16] because women's brands are just trying [25:18] often to get like the most followed influencer to wear their clothes or the most

[25:23] followed supermodel like Kendall Jenner or, you know, [25:28] the biggest A-lister they can get. So often that's not [25:33] a good fit with the brand, which is something I talked about on my sub stack recently when Kylie Jenner was in a Miu Miu campaign and they really lost their fucking minds. Yeah, I'm trying. I remember reading that piece from you. I'm trying to pull up the photo. Tell us about your feelings on the Kylie Jenner Miu Miu campaign. [25:51] So I feel like [25:54] this was a classic case of like, [25:58] misalignment between brand and ambassador, which kind of I've been talking about here, like it happens a lot. [26:05] And I think we're in this weird time in culture where the brands need their celebrity ambassadors more than the other way around. Like, of course, in this situation, Kylie gets a lot of like. [26:18] fashion cred and clout because Miu Miu is not only a historically very cool and well sought, like well thought of and sought after brand. It's also just like the most popular brand right now. Like, I don't know how much y'all talk about list, but they always have this ranking of the most popular brands in the world. And for the last two years running, it was Miu Miu. And that's also [26:48] still, I think they just got acquired by Versace. I'm so sorry. I need to get fact check on that, but they

[26:56] are they were until very recently independent. So, [27:00] Miu Miu made up like, [27:03] almost half of Prada Group's sales in the first half of this year. So like Miu Miu has done a really good job of like cultural programming and making culture. Like they have a book series and a women's tales film series. And like they don't really need a Kylie Jenner. Like they're known for star making. Like Chloe Sevigny's first fashion campaign was Miu Miu. Hailee Steinfeld, Lindsay Lohan, like... [27:29] they usually give someone their first campaign, not their like, [27:34] 80th where, you know, they call in the Jenners. Yeah. [27:38] It's just kind of like if my whole thing in this piece was like [27:43] if the most popular brand in the world needs a Jenner to model for them, like what hope does the rest of the fashion industry have, which is, [27:51] doing poorly. I feel like anyone who [27:55] knows what's going on in the industry, knows that like most brands are not [28:00] doing well, like especially in this era where like [28:04] If a creative director comes in and they don't make a splash within the first like three seasons, they fire them and try someone else. So [28:12] It's a constant turn. The goals are constantly like, [28:16] you know, [28:17] going this way, but then the resources are going this way. And it's, it's a mess. Is it a product of like the luxury category losing some of its luster or is it just like fashion, like up and down the market? I think it's definitely a combination of things. I think the luxury market is having a lot of issues, especially because as the quality goes down,

[28:47] don't want to pay like five figures for something that is shitty quality. So I think also, I [28:57] just the sheer amount of noise that's out there. Like Kylie Jenner, right? She has her own fashion brand. She has her own beauty brand. Like she has all of these things and people are using just like brands as a revenue equation. [29:10] revenue stream now. So like, [29:13] it's there's like a lot of slop out there yeah [29:16] And I just think people are [29:20] spending less on a prod like and people are buying secondhand more and then people are spending on experiences more you guys know that but like i don't know it's a really interesting problem that i spend a good amount of time thinking about i don't know how things are going to change especially when you see things like this when like mu mu [29:40] in my opinion has like okay they should have the space to cast like a real unknown weirdo which they did like they they casted a couple of unknowns in this campaign alongside kylie but like did we see them like i never saw those photos on x or on tiktok i saw this one 5 000 times so it's like [30:02] it's kind of a crutch right like yeah we'll cast my holla and cortiza star and whoever but like [30:09] this is going to get us the headline. Yeah. Wow. Fascinating. Alyssa, thank you so much for coming on. We'll have to have you back. Anytime you want to share any of your thoughts on the fashion industry with us and the voice of the speakers, we'd love to have you.

[30:22] Thank you so much. Have a great rest of your day. [30:25] Thank you too. Bye. [30:27] Okay, let's bring Willem up here. Willem van Lenker, welcome to the show. Hi, how are [30:36] - Hello. - Hey, see you both. [30:38] Thank you for having me. How are you doing today? How's your day going? Great. [30:42] Dave's fantastic. Great. Okay. Willem van Lanker is a partner at Terrain, an early stage technology investment firm, previously founded Oyster, which was acquired by Google, led incubations at Thrive Capital, and designed products at Google Maps and Apple. So we're particularly excited to speak with you about this piece you just wrote. In the AI age, making things difficult is... [31:07] deliberate. Tell us about your thinking here. Tell us about what this is all about. [31:15] Yeah, so this piece came out of... [31:19] So you're long back and forth with Dan Shipper and that every team [31:22] on a few different topics, one being [31:27] the shift from the need of skill acquisition to just build things and it's shifting towards having a directive idea of what to build and then the agency to go after it. [31:40] And then I think the kind of oft or over talked about now topic of tastes and in determining kind of what there is to build and so [31:50] we expanded on this kind of corner of something that I've found throughout my life and making and and and designing and building things, which is the friction of learning and the difficulty of

[32:05] Subject matter acquisition is actually where [32:08] both that perspective of what you should be building, but also the taste behind [32:14] you know, how to go about it and kind of how you bring your eye to it really comes to light. And [32:20] um you know i think we've all seen the ai slop over the last you know 12 to 18 months kind of increase at pace and i think we're only [32:29] you know, 5%, 10% into like the peak of that. It may feel like, you know, everything [32:34] every other post is written by some AI at this point or images created by AI. I think that's coming [32:40] much faster now than ever and will continue to. [32:46] I think you're going to have to fight back against that very intentionally to create something that is [32:52] uh both yours and uh is a is a true expression of your own perspective um but also i think that's the path to quality i think you have to kind of [33:01] push back against some of the effortlessness around us. [33:05] to make things that are gonna be meaningful and lasting. [33:08] Yeah, totally. What I liked about your piece was that it isn't anti-AI. It's really like, let's embrace it, but let's have a really sober look at where AI is going to serve us. [33:20] and where it won't. And this idea of like, [33:24] this productive, [33:26] friction [33:27] being something that we really should do everything that we can [33:32] to hold on to it and to make sure that we're preserving it.

[33:36] Where do you have some productive friction in your work streams? [33:40] I wish that I actually had these tools actually afforded me more of the frictionless experience sometimes. But I find that when you're working with an early stage company, so we're investors in early stage software and technology companies, we invest in AI companies, we help start software and technology companies. The inputs into that are many. [34:05] You're trying to both figure out, you know, what is the team that I'm assembling to go and take this on? [34:11] you know, what is that first product and the kind of wedge into how we're working? And then are we finding something that actually has, you know, product market fit or is compelling someone in a very real way? And [34:25] For me, a lot of my involvement with these teams is helping them bring their story to life, helping them bring [34:31] you know, the bits and the atoms in some cases behind them to feel [34:37] tied together and feel meaningful in someone's daily life. And so there's a lot of [34:43] ways that I engage both AI tools, but also [34:47] pretty kind of classical means of [34:50] learning about topics and going deep in that way and kind of reading source material. So [34:55] I think a lot of it is still kind of hands-on and kind of hand-to-hand interaction there. [35:02] I think in terms of specific practices for me,

[35:07] I try to [35:10] push myself away from [35:12] the for you feeds and the kind of algorithm pushing me news and topics because I think that [35:19] is geared not for my own intentional growth, but geared to kind of hold my attention. [35:25] And so that's probably from [35:29] from a kind of highest level of like [35:31] finding things and learning about things, you have to kind of control the inputs that your [35:36] bringing into your environment, because otherwise you're letting, you know, either some other force do that for you or a, you know, an algorithm that, you know, [35:45] is impartial to your own wants and needs. Yeah. Who knows what that algorithm wants? Yeah. And I guess, you know, you talked a lot about in the piece too, you know, obviously for entry level kids just coming out of school, it's really, really hard for them to now communicate their value proposition. Um, [36:03] how can someone who is just starting up, like, [36:08] make sure that they're actually doing the work and creating that friction while at the same time [36:14] Um, [36:16] differentiating themselves so that they [36:19] can be seen. [36:21] So, you know, I wish I had a... [36:23] Cut off. [36:24] airtight answer on this. I went to art school and then worked in technology my whole career and [36:31] I think that [36:33] the practice of making art in a studio environment is

[36:38] by and large, still pretty insulated from a lot of the challenges I think you're seeing, both in like secondary education and higher education of, you know, AI doing essay writing or, you know, kind of, [36:50] and completing coursework for students [36:53] and kind of stripping them of that experience because [36:56] when you sit in front of and use this example in the essay, but you know, when you sit in front of a blank canvas or you sit in front of [37:02] a clay pot or a piece of apparel that you're making or a print. [37:06] there isn't a lot of room to kind of like let these systems take over for you. And so [37:13] I do think finding these spaces where the output is... [37:18] durable against some of the kind of seamlessness of that. I think that speaking from personal perspective and personal story is [37:26] a place where you will always have to have that kind of dialogue with yourself that [37:31] can't come from a LLM output or an SA output like that. [37:37] So I find those things, you know, it's interesting [37:39] when you think about in the lens of company building, and I work with some founders who [37:44] have had some life experiences, maybe they've been at companies that have [37:47] you know, in specific industries where they've [37:50] you know, learn a thing or two in that market or with that specific customer and how they can apply that forward. I do think it's it's challenging with. [37:59] the [38:00] other type of founder, I mean, who's fresh out of school, who is, you know, building something that new. [38:05] because [38:06] we're in an environment where [38:08] you know, you're a hammer and everything looks like a nail. And so I think it's about early going

[38:14] find what makes you [38:16] really tick what you would wake up and work on every day if [38:20] the, you know, [38:21] the salary or the investment round or what was all the same and that you're really drawn to. I have children, I have a three and a half year old, and I see the things that he's drawn to natively out of interest right now. And it really makes me smile. He loves maps. He loves taking things apart and seeing how they work. Those are things that are inborn in him as an individual. [38:43] And I think as we get into, you know, [38:45] preparing ourselves for the working world or to start companies or something, we go too extrinsic to thinking about, is this a good market opportunity? Is this an idea that like, I can sell is I can I fundraise for this? And you have to return back to that, you know, source of truth, which is what are you actually interested in? And [39:02] It sounds maybe overly simplistic, but I don't think many of us actually engage with that much of a dialogue in that very often. I think we too quickly go to [39:11] can I sell this or is there a customer that wants this, which I think is a real mistake and a real shame to building that kind of lifelong [39:19] love of friction and love of learning. Yeah, I feel I, I, [39:24] Part of when I was reading your piece really resonated with me. I have two kids too. One of my older kid, he's nine. He loves AI and he loves like he... [39:32] I closely monitor what he does with ChatGPT, but he uses it to sort of explore the worlds that he is interested in. And that's really cool. And I want to [39:42] encourage his exploration of it as a tool, but also like just very present to where there are shortcuts that

[39:49] can reduce this friction as you point to and like, therefore like stunt some of his [39:55] development or growth in like building the hard skills and like the like [40:01] the the grit to be able to go back into a problem and like figure it out and that's i'm thinking about that constantly when it comes to him one of the one line that really stuck out to me um in your piece was friction forces articulation in those risdy critiques you're speaking about your time in design school i just liked it better meant blank stares and humiliation i learned to identify and name what i was seeing the warm gray advances while cool gray recedes like speaking to like how you learn to have a language about the stuff that you're talking about and that that being such a [40:31] that really stood out to me. Can you say more about that? [40:34] Sure. So, you know, I think it's fantastic that your kids are engaging with these tools. And I think like, [40:41] you know, our generation, we had Wikipedia and there was like Wikipedia holes and you'd kind of like click through and you'd go deeper and deeper and [40:49] You know, and it was fun. You got to discover things that you maybe never used to know connections about. And I think these systems are just so much more powerful at that. But at the same time, just like Wikipedia, they are [41:00] summarization machines in some regard, right? They take the web's information and the information that they have access to and then both predict [41:09] the next token or the next line of text, but also create handy summaries. And so I think part of the [41:15] you know, vocabulary growth and the learning deeper is going to those secondary sources, going really deep into them, finding that like obscure PDF or even emailing the person behind something and going and visiting them or having a conversation and trying to get out of

[41:33] the limitations that some of these programs have, because then the dialogue becomes not consumptive. It starts to go back and forth. And some of the, you know, when I was a college student, some of my favorite experiences were arguing with [41:48] the Bauhaus train [41:50] 75-year-old design professor I had about computers and learning from their experience when they saw a different era of mechanical [42:00] you know, advancement or change or also just reaching out to people that I had no business speaking to and [42:08] uh them giving me the time of day and like going to learn from them like i have somewhere actually i printed it into a book but in my grad my [42:14] senior thesis, I reached out to Paula Scher. I studied graphic design, reached out to Paula Scher, and I visited her in New York and had an hour long interview with her about technology and how it was changing design production. And so, you know, that probably she didn't remember that didn't mean anything to her. But as a student, it was also this way of [42:32] you know, creating that dialogue and also putting myself out of a comfort zone where I can say, hey, I, you know, we can be in the same room and I'll have a conversation with you. And I think too often, [42:41] You know, the system seemed very, very hierarchical. So, you know, that's certainly a piece. And then I think that you have to [42:49] being a geek a little bit about the thing that you're interested in. Like now, today I've been working and investing now for [42:57] the better part of a decade and [42:59] I love the inside baseball of it. That's not for everyone. That's not also for the audience of founders I necessarily serve. But when I work with my partner, I work with colleagues like

[43:10] going deep into those areas is [43:11] stimulating and exciting to me. And if you find yourself not being [43:15] drawn in by that it's another kind of question to ask back to yourself of like am i not going to go [43:20] you know, really deep into this category and really deep into this so that I can have that [43:25] vocabulary to discuss it beyond what is [43:28] output by ChatGBT or is kind of output by the thought leaders and the, you know, the thread boys online. [43:36] I love that. [43:37] As we wrap up here, you publish this piece on Every. I understand their portfolio company. Do you want to tell us a little bit about just plug what they're doing, what they're up to? [43:46] Sure. So it's a small angel investor. So they're not a portfolio company in terrain, but I've known and been a fan of Dan and the team for some years. You know, they, I think, are building a... [43:58] really novel model of media company. So obviously the core is they write essays and they [44:05] offer opinion and perspectives and bring in different voices thinking about [44:10] you know, kind of how technology and humans interact, but they've also built, I think, these other products and businesses that advance their point of view in the world [44:20] and allow their readers and allow their community to interactively. So they've built applications and software that relate to writing and relate to [44:29] online productivity, they do consulting. And so I think this is a really creative model that they're pioneering there that I think, as you look into the future in 10 to 15 years, I think you'll see a lot of media companies engage that way, both by building

[44:43] a dialogue with customers from a product building perspective as well as content creation. Yeah, heard. Willem, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for being here. [44:53] Thank you guys. Great to meet you. See ya. [44:56] I love that. That was very thought provoking. Yes. You gotta, you gotta actually reach out to people, you know, not chat GBT can't can't capture it all. So have a conversation. You know, I know that but it's nice. It's like beautiful to be reminded. It's so important. [45:16] It is. [45:18] Yeah, there's that, like, if you're not getting... [45:21] like 10 no's every day you're not doing you're not reaching high enough you're not doing enough [45:27] I'll tell you what. [45:28] Need to be reaching higher. I'll say that. Yeah. And honestly, his piece makes me think a lot about, um, [45:35] my kids and using Chatiput. [45:37] Which I think again, [45:39] That's fantastic. [45:41] that's a great thing for them to be engaging with. And you're thinking really deeply about how to do that in, quote unquote, the right. [45:49] way, which I don't think exists because you're learning it in real time. We're all learning it real time. Yeah. I don't like, it's, it's tricky because it's like, I don't want to [45:58] Like I said, I don't want to stifle. Exactly. I want to let him explore it. [46:02] Yeah. [46:03] I see... [46:05] But I could see where it like is a crutch in a weird way. And so anyway, it's just a funny, funny constant. [46:12] Oscar's way ahead of the curve, I'll tell you that much. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe he'll be like the next generation's iPad kids where it's like chat to BT kids where they're all like

[46:22] they can, you know, only... Oh, no. [46:25] stitched together two cohesive thoughts without having to go type something into a chat bot. Okay, let's talk really quickly about Peter Thiel. [46:32] And Peter Thiel, here we are. We're back into into crypto world. So have you heard of bullish? [46:41] *snap* [46:43] Um, yes, because I have a shirt. [46:47] actually that says bullish on it and okay and i got it at bitcoin miami like years ago okay and it was a shirt that was from this exchange i think so okay uh i wasn't really i wasn't really familiar with bullish um they are not operational in the united states but they are uh an institutional grade crypto exchange launched in 2021 they hold three billion in liquid assets that's their [47:17] headquartered and licensed in Gibraltar. They have 50 jurisdictions, Germany, Hong Kong, no U.S., [47:25] know none of that so for us people i mean it's like it's they weren't really on my radar but seeing how big they are i'm like wow that was dumb they should be and i think it just highlights again like um [47:38] this. [47:38] the world does not revolve around North America. It does not. And what a reminder again. Because, yeah, I have the shirt, but that is all I heard about. So this is actually shocking to me. I know. It's crazy. Okay. So the news here is that, oh, yeah, and Peter Thiel is an investor. They filed to go public on the New York Stock Exchange, aiming to raise up to $629 million at a valuation of $4.2 million.

[48:08] Billion, which is a lot of money now. They had [48:15] a [48:16] failed SPAC merger in 2021 that valued it at [48:21] targeted to be valued at around 8 billion. So this is half that, but still not nothing. [48:27] Multiple billions. [48:29] Um, [48:30] So the interesting thing here about Bullish is that they also own CoinDesk, which they acquired in 2023. So it's kind of this like, and the person who runs CoinDesk right now is this guy, Tom Farley, who's the former New York Stock Exchange president. So it's kind of this like... [48:50] trifecta of trading and media and regulation and all of this. So that's kind of what I think makes it interesting. They did report a big Q1 loss. [49:01] 348 million, but are still ranked among the top five global exchanges by trading [49:09] volume. And I wonder, I mean, yeah, I wonder how much Peter Thiel really is involved. Oh, I'm sure not at all. Just the headline. [49:18] I'm sure not at all. Yeah, it's a great headline and probably helps in their roadshow to market this IPO. But I also he's like doing a bank. He's doing like crypto, but he's got he's got to spend in every pie. Yeah, he really, truly does. So one interesting thing about this story, which I think you will be maybe particularly interested in, is that they plan to convert some most much of their IPO proceeds into stable coins as a treasury move. So.

[49:46] yeah they're saying even in their s1 filing they said that they plan to convert a portion of the ipo proceeds into us dollar dominated stable coins instead of holding everything in fiat cash they're basically like we're gonna put our money where our mouth is we're gonna hold it in stable coins that's how our treasury is gonna look and you know what that just speaks to how easy uh it is to use stable coins like that just puts them in such a more like fluid position if they want to move cash [50:16] places that they're operating, in terms of like, if anything goes wrong, you can immediately fund wallets or like make moves [50:25] 10 times more quickly. So, okay, bullish on that move. I know smart, smart, smart. I am excited to see how that IPO goes. Obviously, there's like, we'll get to the moon in a second. But [50:40] Um, [50:41] there's a slew of [50:44] IPO is possibly coming up for crypto companies and [50:47] bullish. [50:48] Kraken, possibly, okay, possibly Gemini. [50:52] everyone's starting to be like, okay, the market feels [50:57] may be right. So it will be an interesting [51:00] thing to watch. And even, you know, where that cash will go, like if they're all having a windfall of cash, will that actually go then back into the crypto ecosystem? So bullish doing that is really interesting. Okay, next story here, NASA to put nuclear reactor on the moon by 2030.

[51:19] So what a headline. So, uh, [51:24] Basically, yeah, nuclear reactor on the moon with the hopes to power future lunar bases. [51:32] This is the acting NASA head, Sean Duffy, who was appointed by Trump. He called for proposals from private companies to basically build a reactor that will work for this purpose. The technical reason why you need a nuclear reactor is because solar power isn't viable globally. [51:51] long term on [51:53] in space, there's it's too much darkness. So we can't do [51:58] solar power so they need to figure something else out if they want to be in space and generating power um and the sort of geopolitical considerations are that there's many yeah china and russia announced a joint plan to build their own nuclear power lunar stations by 2035 this is very much like [52:21] and the framing around this story is very nationalist coded. US first, we're gonna basically like [52:31] name it and claim it is essentially what the vibe is. And the, yeah, big question is who owns, [52:38] space. [52:39] the US is certainly going to try to do everything they can [52:42] to be there first [52:45] grabbing the power grid, setting the rules, but [52:48] that is, I think, a bigger

[52:49] Question. [52:51] Thank you. [52:52] A hundred percent. And there's a lot of historical precedent for this and it's just the next iteration of it. So what's Canada's space program like? [53:04] I [53:05] Couldn't tell you. I think that that says a lot. Yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure anybody that I know would have a take on that or any information for me. Genuinely, not a single person in my network. I am, for the record, very pro-nuclear and very excited by nuclear efforts. Generally, I'm like very, very, very pro and I love to see it. I think that and there's parts of the story [53:35] the [53:36] The US obviously just claiming the moon as their own is, I am not, [53:42] uh, [53:43] excited about that. So I think that there's [53:46] yeah, how it is executed and by whom [53:50] is a big thing. [53:53] I have a question. [53:55] Thank you. [53:55] That is that Tristan Thompson and the White House, you know, take it away. What's going on here? I can't. I don't have much information about Canada's face, but I can give you all the info I have on this. OK, so first of all, who's Tristan Thompson? That's exactly what I was going to start on. So the relevant information to know is that he is Khloe Kardashian's. [54:18] father of her two children. They are no longer together. He is also, dare I say, a Canadian basketball player. We actually, we're the same age. So we came up at the same time in the national system and in the, in the national basketball, for those that don't know, I used to, my, my post, my past life was in basketball. So if you would, yes, yes, yes. So I, I know I've

[54:48] them [54:49] Um, he, um, [54:52] So again, he's cheated on Chloe. He hasn't, in terms of the person and how he's treated the women in his life, [55:01] not a fan. Also like Cheetah and Chloe well documented through the series. That's the thing like this is not hearsay. Yeah. This is this is this is this is cold hard. It's media. Yeah. It's it's IP at a point. Yeah. And you know I have people in my life as well that have seen him with with [55:20] their own two eyes as well. So, you know, I've got personal and public experience with this man. But [55:28] He, the Gray Sox were a choice. It's, it's, that's very interesting. And the shoe even. The shoe even is a choice. Yeah, yeah. It's like down, knee down. It's a whole other thing. So he has started, so he is kind of out of the NBA now. His career has really ticked down. LeBron is obsessed with him, which many will say is why he's maintained relevancy in the NBA. Because obviously whatever LeBron says goes, he played for them in the 2023 season. [55:56] season, but he hasn't really contributed strongly to an NBA team in many years. People can fight me on that. That's fine. You can get in the comments, but that's true. So he started this crypto podcast called Courtside Crypto last year. I've done some deep research in the last 24 hours about this.

[56:26] it [56:27] X is also dead. So in terms of his podcast crypto element, it seems [56:35] not at all active. However, props to him, the Kardashian effect, I guess he's at the White House [56:42] meeting with one of the heads of the digital asset, executive director of the White House Digital Asset Council, [56:51] Bo Hines here. [56:53] Props to him for that. Talking about how crypto can be used. Again, it's funny to me because he's Canadian that he's taking this American angle meeting at the White House. [57:05] So it was just like advocacy? Yes, it was just advocacy. I didn't know he's Canadian. So that is an incredible layer to the story. Yeah, you're welcome. He's just coming and talking about like crypto. Correct. Literally just like I want my kids to buy their house with stable coins and not [57:23] with [57:24] fiat currency. So it was really that I think it's more of a PR move for him. I'm assuming he's really trying to move away, obviously, from the NBA stuff, because that's been floundering. Bless him, but it just has been. And now moving into [57:41] crypto, even though when you look at his like media output around all of that, it's very, very limited. So I'm not exactly sure [57:49] where it's at, but that's what I got for you. Okay. [57:53] Wow. There's so many confident, capable, available people to speak to Bohinds about crypto in the United States and crypto policy, and they chose that guy. That's fine. You have a platform. It seems like the sky is the limit for you. Right.

[58:11] Okay, we're running out of time here, but I do want to speak quickly about the 16 handles. I am so excited for this. So maybe we'll do a whole other podcast on it, but basically 16 handles. [58:23] frozen yogurt chain [58:26] that [58:26] uh failed is has been i think bought by private equity and then being revived by this guy uh and a youtube this guy neil hirschman and a youtuber and they're planning a major expansion 200 plus stores obviously froyo had its big moment in like late 2000 to 2000 to be there for it to be honest i was i was happy to be there for it i totally happy to be there for it and um [58:51] Yeah, they want to bring back Obama-era Froyo. Froyo, I'm never going to use that term again. This is the last time I ever say that word. Frozen yogurt. [59:00] And they [59:02] Yeah, they think that that [59:05] Nostalgia, better branding, Gen Z energy will help. [59:08] 16 handles make a comeback. I will say just really quickly, I was never brand loyal to any frozen yogurt place. So I have no affinity to 16 handles whatsoever. It's more just the concept of self-serve frozen yogurt and that being [59:23] it was totally oversaturated. There was too many that opened and they, it started to get [59:28] gross, but I think we can, I think we're ready for it again. Yeah. And like the joy that it brought me and I hope I can speak for a lot of people. I mean, I'm ready to have that back in my life. Me too. I am too. I am too. So that's our show. Blake, thank you so much for coming on and hanging out. We'll have you back again. And thanks everyone for tuning in.

[59:52] Okay, that's our show this week. Join us live on Twitter every Wednesday at noon. Or here, I guess.