Ep: 212: Silicon Valley Chats: Claire Kart with Hot Takes, Jill Gunter on Zcash, Zara Stone on Chinese Peptides, Gloria Allorbi on Hot Sauce Selling in Erewhon, and Adi Thacker on Poshmark Insights

[00:00] Dumb Shower is a weekly live chat on all things tech, crypto and pop culture news brought to you by Boys Club, a New York based media and creative studio. DVH is hosted by myself, Tina Burke and Natasha Hoskins. Hi, co-founders, marketers and entrepreneurs that have built our careers in new tech and startups. We're also proudly the dumbest in the room and we love to learn in public. DVH is recorded live and best consumed as a video podcast. Here's this week's show. [00:29] you [00:31] Okay. [00:34] How's it sounding? [00:35] Good enough. [00:36] who's to say uh welcome to boys club live boys club live we um it was a sprint to the finish here here we are we're we're in san francisco it's so are we technically in san francisco is this san francisco [00:51] I think this is Palo Alto. Okay. I think technically. [00:55] Menel Park. [00:57] Wow, that is really hitting. [01:00] I don't know. [01:01] We're in Menlo Park at the A6TBZ office here, which is so nice of them to let us... [01:07] Just, yeah. [01:09] What's that? [01:12] Oh, yeah. So huge, huge shout out. Yeah. To the A16Z team, in particular, Sherry and Victoria and Angelica, who have been helping us with their content studio, letting us crash. They have so much incredible here. So I hope we look and sound great.

[01:42] Let us know. But yeah, huge, huge love to them for letting us crash. Yeah, really fun to be here. Really fun to be in San Francisco. City is pumping. It's alive. There's a lot of energy. It's really fun. We have an event tonight with a base. [01:59] and A16C, so we're excited about that. And we have a really stacked show. Big time. Big time stacked. Lots of fun stuff. So let me just do a quick agenda here. We have... [02:11] We have Gloria from Gloria's Shito, which we're excited to chat with her. We're going to chat with a new friend from Poshmark, Addy. [02:20] Great. Love that. Claire Cart from Aztec is going to be joining us for a yap sesh. Jill Gunter from Espresso to just all star ladies there. And then Zara Stone from the San Francisco Standard. We're going to end with a deep dive on the peptides situation. Great. Which is really top of mind for both of us. [02:40] um, [02:41] incredible. I cannot wait to chat with her. But before we get started, just a quick shout out to our friends from Polygon. [02:52] They sponsor this stream. They sponsor this podcast. [02:55] podcast i guess it's not really a podcast anymore but it's a stream now and there are partners and they're so lovely and uh it's so kind of them to [03:05] to support us and if you've touched crypto in any way chances are you've already used polygon it's a chain quietly powering a bunch of the stuff that actually works that people actually use like stripes crypto payments uh betting on poly markets prediction markets and a bunch more shout out to polygon we love you guys we love polygon um also shout out to mackie in the comments you look good and sound good on twitter

[03:25] Huge. Absolutely. Thank you. I love to hear that we sound okay. Okay. So we, there's so much that I want to chat with you about. [03:36] First of all, Bitcoin all-time high. All-time high. Bitcoin all-time high. And perhaps decoupling, which is for the Bitcoin market. [03:44] Maxis or holders is a good sign. Yeah, yeah. [03:49] Can you explain what decoupling is? Yeah. Basically, historically, the price of Bitcoin has tracked very closely to the performance of the stock market and the economy overall. Okay. And so... [04:01] That's fine. It is what it is, but it... [04:04] um, [04:05] when Bitcoin... [04:07] starts to do its own thing, then it becomes, like, basically can stand on its own feet. I'm not describing it very well, but basically it... It detached from the stock market. Yes. The [04:19] isn't [04:21] commensurate. Sure. It's the wrong word with what's happening in the stock market. Yeah. Like [04:27] It has its own story. It has its own story. And it then has a greater likelihood of becoming its own sort of reserve asset that people are investing in and holding. And so for folks who hold Bitcoin, that's good news. A bunch of other stuff that I want to chat with, but maybe we should. [04:46] Just... [04:48] get going with our guests and then we can let's do it okay [04:51] Thank you. [04:53] Okay.

[04:55] Gloria, do you want to go? Gloria, come on up. [04:58] This is your mic here. Hopefully it's going to [05:02] be comfortable for you okay we're bringing up uh [05:08] Gloria, come on in. Hi. [05:13] Good to see you. This is cute. Thanks for having me. Thank you for coming. I know you're a guest. Oh, my gosh. Oh, that's so kind. Should we open it now? Yes. Oh, my gosh. Exciting. So I brought Gloria's chateau. [05:26] Oh, it's Chateau. That's how you pronounce it. Fine. Okay, Chateau. [05:31] Oh, Chateau. Okay, great. Wow, cute. [05:36] vegan yes okay traditionally it's not vegan can you pull the mic a little closer to you there great here let's do this there we go [05:47] traditionally in Ghana it would not have um it wouldn't be vegan because it would have CBD okay okay and [05:55] I had to veganize it based on the customer base, the market. Okay. So, yeah. Amazing. Okay, so it's a Ghanaian vegan chili oil, spicy three peppers here. And then you have two pepperoni. [06:07] So there's two heat levels. Okay. Medium and spicy. Okay. Yeah. And tell us your story. So how did you come to make, uh, make this? [06:15] I was born in Ghana, raised in the UK, moved to the United States and [06:21] having to move around I found myself kind of like adopted into my new environment so language food culture and slowly found that I was losing my own Culture and the only time I would have access to the taste of home was my mom's cooking. Mm-hmm. So now as an adult I can't always go to my mom's

[06:42] home to eat her food and around me in grocery stores and also restaurants, I couldn't access a taste of Ghana. And shita is simply the ketchup or sriracha of Ghana. Okay. I mean, and everyone has it in their country, restaurants, street food. [06:59] so i told myself if i can make it then i can just put out the food i'm already eating give me the taste of home and then gonna the people who would make are like the respected like [07:09] women who are like culinary expects. Okay. Okay. Your grandma, your auntie, [07:15] Like matriarch of the family. Yeah. And so when I made it, I was trying to mimic my mom's recipe and it came out really delightful. And I was like, [07:24] I was just proud. And that sense of pride led me to want to share it beyond like my own culture and not seeing the cuisine of West Africa and grocery spaces, asking the question why the answer became, well, someone has to put it out there. Someone has to share it. So then I became that someone. I come from a scientific background, previously developing skincare, fragrances, hair care products. So I took that [07:51] transferable skill and [07:55] went to commercialization with my mom's homemade sauce. And now my ambition is to just create a space for people [08:04] West African flavors. [08:06] because it's just missing in grocery spaces and like mainstream in the western part of the world I live in. So that's part of my story and my why. And part of how we got connected to you is that Yana from Kiki, they've launched a new platform and you are doing a project on there. So do you want to talk a little bit about that platform, what you're up to, what that looks like?

[08:36] and sitting next to each other at the dinner table. She told me, oh, I don't like, I brought my sauce to share at the dinner. And she's like, oh, I don't like hot sauces. They're just [08:48] to her and I'm like well just give it a chance just try it she tried it and fell in love with it and she had been following my business or my brand for like the past six months and not seeing like how it will fit into like her world um [09:05] So she launched Aura, which is a platform to raise capital for brands to succeed. And I think it just made sense because recently a coffee shop called Noun Coffee opened up in Marina del Rey, Los Angeles. And they organically found my product and now have it as a staple on your menu. And so it just kind of became... [09:30] a no-brainer that this is a delicious sauce that people just love when they come to find it. [09:38] And so she obviously wants to see me succeed and the opportunity to raise capital on Aura to continuously help my brand, to bring more awareness and more recognition through like marketing. And so we launched the fund raising on Aura this week. Cool. Congratulations. And so Aura is like one part token launcher, right? It looks to me like if a token launcher met a Kickstarter.

[10:07] Does that feel like a right way to describe it? Okay. So how it works is a presale where we will raise capital. So the target for this raise is 100,000. And so when we reach the 100,000, we're going to raise capital. [10:24] Now we're able to launch a token that is tradable on the base platform. And then I get 50% of that raise to support my brand. And then the contributors become owners of the token and are able to promote it, trade it. [10:54] see. So talk about it, promote it. Yeah. Just, yeah. Cool. Okay, cool. So the, um, [11:02] Does it become a token after it reaches the goal or does it become a token before it reaches a smaller threshold? After it reaches the goal. Okay. Yeah. So if we don't reach 100K, then we don't. It's the Kickstarter model. Fully funded or not at all. Fully funded or not, yeah. Okay, cool. That makes sense. And the ticker is Shito. Shito. [11:25] I'm saying it wrong I'm saying it correct and it's a pepper right just means hot sauce [11:33] Okay. In Ghana. Oh, it's not a kind of pepper. No, it's not a kind of pepper. It just means hot sauce. Okay. Yeah. Hot sauce.

[11:40] pepper, [11:41] spice [11:42] anything to translate. Okay. I need more sauce. I need more hot pepper. I need more spice. So that's, it's interchangeable for those words. Okay. And you, you have several products, right? I do. Okay. So I have now, I originally had one product, which was my medium chili oil. And for [12:12] Reed um and Ashley Graham I was casted for a tv show called Side Hustlers similar to um Emma Reed is like the skim founder for skims good American yeah she's incredible incredible woman incredible entrepreneur smart woman um so I went I was casted for this tv show she became my mentor okay and in terms of like taking my passion project and turning it into a [12:42] is to take shelf space. And so... [12:45] provide more variety for the customers to choose from. So just having a spicy sauce may be... [12:53] a medium spice so other customers can also tap into it i've since developed a sweeter version which is the chili honey and this came about it was more of like an innovative product where the customer was putting the chili oil on cheese and crackers and drizzling honey on top and so i tried it and i thought it tasted delicious so then i turned it into a product um so now i have

[13:20] The medium sauce, the spicy, and then the chili honey, which is sweet and spicy. Nice. And then I also have a shake and sprinkle, which is great for avocado toast or pizza. So it's a dry form of the chili oil. And what's the hot sauce market like? I imagine super competitive. Very competitive. So many... [13:43] so many varieties. But the [13:47] difference is that there isn't accessibility to the taste of West Africa. So yes, there are so many [13:56] Latin cuisine, so many Asian cuisine in terms of flavor profile, but the cuisine of food. [14:04] Africa, the cuisine of West Africa is missing. So yes, it's saturated, but there is room for the continent of Africa to join in the, you know, the non-market flavors. Yeah. I'm curious, you know, you have this CPG brand, you're building a business and then you're getting exposed to sort of like this, like launching a token. Yeah. [14:28] fundraising, [14:30] so publicly, like that's a very specific, [14:33] type of work to do. And it's also like pretty deep in a tech stack that is maybe unfamiliar to like a CPG founder. I'm curious how that experience has been for you and like how you started to look at these tools and think about them. [14:45] Absolutely. I think for me, [14:48] immediately it was go to where the customer is because currently, um, and, um,

[14:55] how I started my business. I didn't have upfront capital to start. It was a passion project, my own self-funded. Um, and to, I brought the brand to where I can on my own. I've gotten it into retails like air one and it's maintained top 10. Nice. Congratulations. And I've done that by myself. Um, I have it on Amazon and we continuously sell out. I'm at a stage where I would love to [15:25] love to see the brand in more retail places like [15:29] Whole Foods, I would like to see it in Target and Costco, everywhere people shop. But that means I have to raise money. And it's very difficult being a woman. Statistically, only 2% of funding goes towards women. And then you have to also bring it down to black women. And it's [15:51] It's a tough space to navigate for someone like me who [15:55] does not understand that world. And so... [15:59] with Aura, the opportunity is to support me, get back in from the community and help [16:07] Not only that, also have more eyeballs on my brand. So it's a win-win. So if it's the Turk world where people are open to supporting and helping my brand grow, then why? [16:21] That's where I'm going. So let's say you...

[16:26] How does it work with like a Costco or Target or like what's the zoom on this? Like, is the need for capital that you need to, [16:35] produce it and then you have to fulfill those orders? Like what's the... So let's say if Target approves to carry my product on the shelf and... [16:45] It's a PO for 50,000 units. I will have to... [16:51] Produce all that. Produce that up front. I would have to pay the manufacturer up front. And oftentimes it would be a net 60, net 60. [17:01] - Okay, it's a cash flow issue. - So if I don't have the cash flow to fulfill [17:06] that [17:06] PO, then I'm just sitting on the PO with no cash flow to make that happen. So it's either I'm fundraising, taking out a loan, or I have that cash flow sitting in my bank account. Okay. Okay. So it makes sense why the upfront capital is super important to be able to fulfill on these orders before. Okay. Well, so exciting. Where can people find your brand, your campaign? [17:32] So currently we are launched on Aura. We're on X. Also, I am available DTC on my own website, GloriousShata.com, Glorious, G-L-O-R-I-A-S. [17:47] S-H-I-T-O, GloriousShitA.com. And then also available on Amazon. I ship nationwide and Amazon Prime today's shipping. Great. Let's go on out today. Question. What's your favorite Ghanaian restaurant in L.A.? Which is where I know you're based. Yes. So...

[18:08] I don't have a, so there isn't a favorite Guinean restaurant for me to like because they're [18:12] aren't [18:13] Okay. I mean, in restaurants. I see. The lack of accessibility was what led to me. Part of why we're here. This rabbit hole. But there is a West African restaurant. [18:25] It is by... [18:27] a Afghanian and a half Snigolese and it's called two homeys and they're in Englewood and they've gained so much popularity and they've actually had my sauce on their menu from day one as your staple um condiment nice and yeah and they've been doing amazing they've been written about by LA Times either they've just been skyrocketing yeah nice um well thank you so much for that I can't wait to try it thank you for the gifts happy to um yeah check it out yeah folks should [18:57] I dropped the link in the chat, but I'll drop it again for the Aura launch and should you [19:03] get involved and support a wonderful founder like Gloria. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you. Nice to meet you. Absolutely. I'm excited to know what you think. And if the spicy is not your jam, I have a medium. Okay. I love the spice. I can handle. I can handle it. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. [19:22] Can't wait to try it. Me too. I'm so excited. I've been eating a, [19:27] You love a condiment. I love a condiment. You love a condiment family. Yeah. Anytime. Anytime. There's dinner. There's six to eight different condiments. Yeah. Really, no matter what I've cooked. So this is a delight. I'm really excited to try it. One of my favorite condiments is...

[19:44] A lime pickle. [19:45] Oh, you introduced me to this. And it's... [19:48] second to none, um, in terms of just, yeah, flavor, flavor, texture, [19:54] And versatile. It's, yes, it's a spicy... [19:59] Pickled lime. [20:00] It's great. But this might be it. I know. I'm really excited. I'm really excited to try this. Okay. While we're in between guests here, just want to... [20:11] talk about a few things. [20:14] A few things to discuss. A few things to discuss. First, first thing to discuss here. [20:20] Kate sent me this link this morning. [20:22] Oh. [20:24] you [20:25] It seems like our audio is fine. [20:28] Great. I'm so happy to hear that. [20:30] Okay. [20:33] Let's get this up on the... [20:36] Okay, this had me screaming. This is the pick in the listing versus what shows up on Google Maps. So it's a yes-fied house listing. Oh my gosh. Okay, genuinely a yes-fied. And what's happening here is clearly that landlords or sellers are using AI to stage their... [21:01] properties for sale. I see. I see that. I can see that. But quite... [21:08] Like aggressively, I'd say. I would say that it's inappropriate. It's inappropriate, yeah. The level of... [21:14] Like I can't, hi, I can't help but say like just airbrush. It's not even airbrush. It's a different property entirely. It's a different reality entirely. It's that it's showing, it's showcasing something.

[21:29] it's, [21:30] False advertising. Okay, that's one way of saying it. Vision. It's a vision casting. That's another way of saying it. Oh, cool. This is what it could be. This is what it could be. Yeah, yeah. This is not what it is, but maybe one day it will be. Okay, well, what I want to say about this is that... [21:44] As you know, I've spent 20,000 hours on Facebook Marketplace in this past week alone. And [21:50] they, [21:51] Facebook marketplace furniture listings have started to become AI-yout. [21:55] generated. [21:56] floofed as well because it's not like generally because they'll have the photo but it's like stage this in a nicer place but then they'll [22:03] In doing that, like airbrush the the leather so that it doesn't have like the like it's the A.I. is doing things to it, maybe unintentionally or maybe intentionally by the seller to make it look. [22:13] better and better condition. Is it AI that's built into Facebook? I don't think so. I think they're [22:18] They're okay. They're rinsing it through. Anyway, super offensive. Um, I hate it and we need to stop doing that. I like it's, it's catfishing in a peer to peer marketplace. Yes. I also saw the other day that catfish the show nine seasons. [22:35] No. Yes. Just taken off the air. I was like, it was like catfish breaking catfish canceled after nine seasons. I was like, that's just still on nine seasons. That's crazy. Also at a certain point, [22:46] the jig is up like we know that the catfishing exists like at the first season you're like oh wow crazy yeah shock value um gone okay so i do um wanted to say that the facebook marketplace yes vacation mm-hmm

[23:02] is a tidy introduction to our next yes here nice segue thank you okay addy thacker come on up uh poshmarks vp of ads and partnership hi hi so nice to meet you come on down this could be like maybe moved if it's uncomfortable for you but or it's fine you're good okay nice to meet you too thanks so much for coming to hang [23:27] My pleasure. This looks like fun. It is. We actually have a... [23:34] We have a -- [23:35] at boys club fun only that's the core value um so poshmark is close by right uh redwood city so not tomorrow okay nice um so i just want to start off by saying you're in a room full of all very warm room we all love poshmark we all use it and um we're so excited to have you kate in particular you have you have like a power user with kate um she's like a research like crazy next level um [24:05] brief rundown on what Poshmark is. So Poshmark, speaking of marketplaces, Poshmark is a peer-to-peer fashion marketplace. So millions of people come together to buy, sell, and explore fashion. But yeah, it's really a network of community closets that have been brought together. It's a [24:25] assets, closets brought together by AI and ML. That's what we do. Nice. And it's a big business. Like, it's not like a, it's, I'm always struck by

[24:35] It's a hugely successful business. [24:38] Yeah, I don't know any numbers here, but I think it's massive. It's one of the leading... [24:42] probably the leading fashion marketplace in the United States. Okay. And just to break it down for folks who, who may not be getting it, it's you have a shirt, you want to sell the shirt, you go on Poshmark, you list the shirt and then someone in Boise can buy it. And, but it's really like that sure can happen on eBay and Facebook marketplace and all these other places, but it's really like, pull it up. Yeah. It's really for fashion. [25:12] other sort of seller reseller marketplaces. Is that fair? [25:16] That's fair. Okay. So, I mean... [25:19] Other stuff too. Yeah. So it's predominantly has been, and we'll talk about where it's going to go. Okay, great, great, great. It's been very sort of female centric fashion marketplace, I think dresses, bags, shoes, et cetera. So if you think about, you know, Lululemon, Suzanne, Chanel bags, Gucci. That's also Ray-Bans on there recently. [25:49] could be anywhere in the United States, list something. I think Poshmark's interesting because we aggregate so many inquisitive, inspired shoppers that come here just to buy. [26:00] stuff like clothes, right? Versus eBay or some other platforms that have multi-categories. So I think they come in, they almost treasure hunt their way. Yeah, that's true.

[26:14] Okay, so give us a headline on what's next for Pashmark. So a lot of stuff happening. So I think, you know, we've always been a great destination to explore brands at good value. [26:30] How can we use this massive [26:34] catalog or inventory of listings that we have, but really show shoppers things that they have liked, but also introduce them to things that they did not know they liked using different forms. I mean, we've been very listing or item focused, but think about styles and aesthetics and style boards, right? So really exploring, helping you explore and almost like stretching you to the edges of [27:04] your taste using AI and ML. I think that's where we want to be, but how we show up in our feed and how search works. Okay. So can I play out a scenario for you? Let's do it. Okay. So I'm on Poshmark. I'm there. I'm looking for... [27:19] a BABA sweater, [27:21] I'm looking through the Baba sweaters. Are you guys then feeding me [27:24] Other... [27:25] resellers that have a similar aesthetic or is it [27:29] like retailers, like not other sellers. Do you understand what I'm saying? Okay. Yeah, it could be both. I think we're going to start off with, with sellers, but the idea is I think, um, you know, what else might you like, uh, that is related to that sweater? Okay. What else might you buy in conjunction with that sweater to kind of complete a look? Oh, yeah. And then what else might you buy that might be maybe at the periphery of the style that you just mentioned? I see. Um,

[27:59] maybe even get inspired by, in terms of complimentary items, or even adjacent stuff. - Okay, cool, so you guys playing stylus. [28:06] It's like, okay, this sweater might look good with these pants. Okay, cool. That's great. That's exciting. Okay, so search seems to be a big thing for you guys and where you're investing. What... [28:19] In the search world, what signals are you looking for to be able to show the right listing or a nudge listing to the right chopper? Like, what are you... [28:28] What are the signals that matter? Sure. Yeah. Look, I mean, search is all about context. Right. I think, you know, typically you type in a query and, you know, you see search results. Right. But we think about search a bit differently. I think for us, it's not about what you type, but also why you type that in. So I think about something like, you know, oversized blazer. That could be a trend or it could be someone looking for XSL blazer. Right. [28:58] matter. So understanding you, I think that's number one. So going beyond the literal. I think number two is [29:05] personalization, right? I mean, you know, when I shop Little Lemon, it's usually pants and not shirts. They know that Adi and shoppers like Adi have mostly bought pants from this brand. They will personalize my searches, right? Okay. Two, and then I think three, I think for a search, it's like having good quality listings. I think, you know, better... [29:22] quality listings, you guys talked about images before I got on. So images that are well priced at a market clearing price for that item really matter. I think for just like, you know, on Yelp or on like, you know, dating sites, I think

[29:35] Activity matters, right? Especially in peer-to-peer. You can't match someone with someone, with a user to a business or a user to a person if the other end is not active in the app. It's just a bad experience for the shopper. So I think it's a combination of all these things that really matter. It's a bit more nuanced based on what you're searching for and when. But yeah, I think those are the key categories. [30:05] oh no, I got a sale and I didn't put her out of office. Out of town. Out of town. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She hadn't put that up. And so there was a pressure then to figure out. Yeah, she was like, I got to respond to this fire. [30:21] Tell them. [30:22] I'll be back in two days. But that's what you're speaking to is making sure that like people are online and able to ship and like. Exactly. Right. Well, I think it's even upper form than that. OK, you know, a lot of our transactions happen via offers. So you making an offer for an item or a seller making an offer to a buyer. And actually, majority of those are transactions are offer led or offer first. So if you're not really active and responding or offering, you're probably going to make a fraction of the sales that you might have otherwise. [30:52] But to your point, even following through on what you've sold matters because it does because we do crack, you know, time to ship and things like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I have I think one of your guys's best features is if somebody likes your product.

[31:09] your image or your product, then you can send them a specific discount. Yes. I'm hitting that. I'm, I'm, I'm offering those discounts all the time. Cause I'm like, okay, great. And then you see how much you're going to make. And you're like, I'm either going to make this or make nothing. So I'm going to go for it. So you guys, what was the last thing you sold on Poshmark? A pair of Ray-Ban sunglasses. Okay. Yeah. They just didn't work for you. They, they were not in my style anymore. Okay. Oh, used, fully used. You had, yeah, nice. And I sold that. And then I sold the Bobo sweater. [31:38] which I got a great... [31:39] return on. Yeah. And that was also something my sister had given me. I wore it a little bit and then I was like, this is not really my style. Can I ask how much you got for that? I got... [31:50] $175. Wow, nice. Yeah, really good. I mean, retail is pretty good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good deal. Thank you, thank you. They're a beautiful sweater. Beautiful wool, and they only get better with time, so if I have more Boba's sweater, I'll be sure to share on the stream here. But wait, there was one other thing I was going to say. Oh, well, one thing that's been funny to me about my experience with Poshmark, and I'm not sure that I'm using it as you guys intend, but there's a group of girls that-

[32:20] So, [32:21] We all collectively use one account. And we've seen that. I don't want to know. I fear that that will be bad for you. Okay, we'll move on. [32:30] Okay, so I'm curious, like any insight on... [32:35] Any Gen Z insight on search in particular that you found in doing this work, like anything that makes Gen Z click through or not click through? [32:44] Yeah, I think Gen Z has been very interesting for us, right? Because I think they tend to shop more trends and vibes than brands. If you think about millennials, it's mostly brands, right? So we see a lot of click-through on vintage, you know, preppy, things like that. Oh, they're searching by style. Cottagecore. Yeah. Okay. Or whatever. That's so interesting. I think it's just... [33:07] the appeal of brands and how brands are presented to Gen Z is definitely unique. I mean, we do see the typical brands like Little Lemon and sort of people sort of have high sell through with Gen Z. But I think it's a different way of not being brand first is what we're seeing. That's so interesting. That's interesting because for me, I'm like, I need to just get to the heart of the matter. The more specific I am with the search, but that's aging me, clearly. Yeah, for sure. [33:36] Okay. You guys have a strategic partnership with Facebook marketplace. Shout out. Congratulations. How does that work? Yeah. So it's a win-win partnership. So the idea really is for Poshmark to cross list Gen Z or young audience resonant items on Facebook and Facebook gets this inventory and has it show up on their feed and search.

[34:06] So if a Facebook user, there's tons of traffic there. So it's definitely more liquidity for all the listings. Sellers on Poshmark. If they click on any Poshmark source listing, they get rooted to a guest checkout on Poshmark. Okay. And we sort of acquire the user, right? It's going to win-win because... [34:25] Marketplace gets great Gen Z or young audience oriented content, which is listing inventory. And we get this. [34:33] We get users from this high-capital surface, right? So that's how it came about. I think we're still testing it. We're going to make it work better. [34:41] Optically. Interesting. Is it just fashion pieces or is it [34:45] Other products as well. Predominantly fashion, but we're also testing out some adjacent categories. Okay. Okay. Resonating as well. And, and at that point, are they in a, [34:54] Poshmark, [34:56] Checkout flow? Yes, they are. So they would discover the listing on Facebook search and feed. Okay. But then they actually click through, they get directed off Facebook into a guest checkout flow on Poshmark. Okay. And they're transacting with you. [35:12] Yeah, via the transaction. Okay. Yeah. Because Facebook Marketplace... [35:16] You can transact through on some items on their shipped items. Yeah. I think most of our items still are local classified. Peer to peer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's so interesting. I am so curious. I would love to see if anyone's listening. The marketplace traffic insights like I just like I'm dying to know who else is hanging out there all day.

[35:41] In addition to us. [35:44] I know. I mean, I have quite a few friends who have told me, oh, I recently am taking a break from social media. [35:50] but I've gotten addicted to Facebook. It's so addictive. It's so addictive. It really is. Especially if you've got a project. Yeah. So what's the last thing you sold on Poshmark? The last thing I sold on Poshmark was two weeks ago. I actually shipped, I sold, um, [36:05] He's a Lululemon pants guy. Lululemon. Yeah. I mean, by most of those. Oh, okay. So she sold like a lucky brand. Okay. Okay. Um, [36:14] pair of black jeans. Nice. Yeah, two weeks ago. Okay. Yeah. Is there a lot of at HQ? Are you guys like... [36:21] I just imagine if you're working at a reseller, like there's the energy and like I could see people coming into the office being like, hey, these are some things that are on my account right now. Yeah, I think we have a lot of people that like, you know, maybe talk about the stuff that they sold. We usually have, we used to have like a live show going as well. Oh, fun. That's really fun. But yeah, I think, you know, a lot of our employees are power users. Yeah, I totally, I can see that. So fun. [36:51] I know we have a lot of sellers who might be watching who are in the room, actually, with us. Right here. Yeah. Yeah. What what are some concrete things that they could do that you would suggest that they could do to rank higher or to have more success on the platform? [37:08] Yeah, I think it starts with the listing, right? So listing quality, right? So just make sure your listing is kind of comprehensive in terms of all the attributes. You know, you have multiple images, you know, the image quality is great.

[37:21] you price it right. I think price is critical for you to get a sale. That's number one. I think two is just being attentive to offers, right? So responding to offers, you know, making offers to people that have liked your items is critical. I think, as I mentioned, majority of our transactions are driven by offers versus direct purchases. It's peer-to-peer, right? So people, shoppers [37:51] So that and then I think third is just like credibility, which is, you know, if you're going on vacation for your closet. [38:17] being better civilians as sellers to make these things maybe more automated, kind of nudge you into best practices. So, I mean, that's a lot more to come on that front. Great, because I've had to wait on items that I've ordered recently that I'm like, ladies, let's get to the post office. Let's box up those boots and ship them off. It's time. So I'm excited for this nudge. I have a question for you. [38:45] Pictures. [38:46] Do you find that pictures that are styled do better than... Like, I'm always torn. Great question. Do I wear it and send... Because I always get asked, can you show this on a body? Kate says, she always gets asked, can you show this on a body? What do you see in the data? All right, so...

[39:02] contentious, right? Okay. Yeah. So we recently learned, so I think there's two aspects. I mean, one is then you guys talked about touching up images, you know, using AI and then styling, right? Okay. [39:13] So, [39:14] In a peer-to-peer marketplace, I think people typically come here because of [39:18] used and authentic sort of goods. It's almost like UGC content on TikTok. If it's overproduced, maybe it won't really resonate, right? So the jury's still out, to be honest with you. I've seen some marketplaces talk about like, you know, we don't want our images touched up. Yeah. And some say, well, you know, we really want it touched up and, you know, have it look like new. So I don't have a... [39:42] strong opinion uh yet on either in in terms of styling yet don't i think styling typically works but it can also introduce bad behavior so men will click on listings that are styled on women for the wrong reasons right so but i think but when targeted to the right audience like you know women it does work better because they know what it looks like right majority of our audience today [40:12] I don't actually think I know a man who buys... [40:15] Like it's very, it's very Poshmark feels very feminine to me. And a lot of the people I know who resell there are doing that. Well, this was so fun. So fun. Thank you so much for coming on. I can't wait to see what you guys are going to be shipping out. I can't wait. It's going to be fun to see. Maybe I'll come back and tell you. Yeah. Yeah. Please do. Talk about it. Right. Please do. Please do. My whole style will change.

[40:45] Thank you. [40:46] I have a few things I want to buy. Okay. And maybe what's, what's what's on the list. Okay. I want to get some oversized. I feel like maybe I should pull them up for Kate. Um, [40:57] And she can find me dupe. I want to get some oversized aviators. These are really in right now. Oversized aviators. [41:02] But they're not like aviators. They're like thick. You know what I'm talking about? Kind of. I see a video. I bought some from Mossimo daddy. [41:09] and they weren't quite right because I want them more fast. I want them either like, [41:16] Clear blue or yellow or orange lens. Mm-hmm. [41:23] And there's a Tom Ford pair. [41:25] that are so hot and they're yellow and they're oversized i'm gonna pull up a picture they're so great they're like 600 700 retail i'm not gonna spend that on a pair of sunglasses [41:35] Yeah, but then I do fear, I guess we should have talked to him about this actually. I do fear buying a pair of sunglasses. [41:42] on a reseller. [41:44] Is it a dupe? [41:46] Oh, interesting. Interesting. Right. Right. Right. I can see that. Really good point on my end. Thanks guys. Um, okay. Um, [41:55] I how we doing here on time? We're doing great. So I just I'm going to pull up. [42:01] So [42:02] Wanted to start. Yeah, I'm getting a note from Miranda. Your mic, you might want to move it a little bit away from your face. It's too much. Too much enthusiasm. [42:13] OK, I my sunglasses.

[42:16] Yes, I do want to talk through... [42:20] Halloween costumes, some data on Halloween 2025. [42:25] So we are in the... [42:29] Planning stages for Halloween. [42:31] Yes. [42:32] It's on a Friday night this year. I know. You don't think I know that? So... [42:37] We're it's coming up. Um, and okay, Kate, I'm sending you a picture. Maybe you can pull these up. [42:44] Google has something-- [42:47] Basically, they repackage their search... [42:51] insights for specifically around Halloween. So people can like, and it's, it's like a spooky page. I'll pull up in a second, but basically to be showing what people are searching for. [43:01] with regards to halloween costumes okay and hold on let me just pull this up uh number two ray gun oh no sounds coming through on the way um [43:18] Okay. [43:19] Spooky season. Do you know what I feel is adjacent to a Disney adult? An adult who's too into spooky season. Yeah, that's it's too much. [43:31] it's hobby time okay anyway um yeah i i live in a neighborhood that's like it's really into halloween and i i i think it's kind of nice yeah but you're not like a spooky season person you're not like i'm [43:42] Right, right, right, right, right. Anyway, no worries. Okay, so...

[43:49] It looks as though... [43:51] Ray-Gon costume is coming in at number two, which honestly... [43:57] is a pretty easy costume to pull off. Wait, what's we got? [44:00] the break dancer. [44:02] Oh, okay. That was this year. I thought that was last year. That one last year. [44:09] Because I talked about it when I was in Japan. Okay, yeah. People are rolling it back. Let's rewind. Rewind the tapes. Hit Ray Gunn for a second time in a year. I don't know what shrunken head Bob is. Beetlejuice shrunken head is a top searched shrunken head. I don't know what that is. [44:26] A lot of Beetlejuice stuff. A lot of Beetlejuice. Okay. Oh, Inside Out themed costumes. Okay. [44:33] um uh duo costumes wolverine and deadpool okay can you go to party themes themes [44:44] Beetlejuice. What's going on with Beetlejuice? I mean, I feel like maybe there's something, some cultural thing that we missed. Yeah, maybe the Wednesday thing. [44:50] oh show wednesday okay potentially [44:53] I think they also came out with the movie, like, with molasses. [44:56] Oh, new Beetlejuice movie breaking. Can anyone let us know if there's a new Beetlejuice movie? [45:03] I think so, right? Okay, well, that would... [45:05] um explain some of this that would explain some of this transfer thing uh murder mystery party skeleton masquerade hello kitty party bluey party [45:14] This year? [45:17] Obviously, Raygon. I don't know. Oh, interesting. Sabrina Carpenter, heart corset. Oh, that's kind of fun. Sabrina Carpenter's fun.

[45:24] Oh, I... [45:27] can be the most popular. [45:28] Okay, Kate says, oh my gosh, we should make a polymarket. [45:31] Oh, nice. How would you, as determined from... [45:35] from [45:36] Search insights, Google search, I guess it would have to be. We need to. Yeah. Oh, OK. Well, the other thing that I had a link here, but it doesn't seem to be pulling up the right stuff is. [45:47] Pinterest every year. [45:51] releases a trend report yeah so i'm trying to pull this up but basically just one little data fact for us here to ground everyone and how much money there is in halloween costumes it's a um [46:02] Spending will hit a record. The National Retail Foundation says spending will hit a record $13 billion with $4 billion on costumes. [46:09] Yeah. [46:10] A lot of money, a lot of money in costumes. So I just think that that's fascinating. Searches for uncommon Halloween costumes are up 171%. So on Pinterest, people are like, how do I [46:25] should i ask you what based on my search history what they think i should yes yes let's do it um okay 2025 halloween costumes on pinterest let's see what they're saying [46:37] um this is a risky scroll i have to say risky risky scroll might not be safe for work oh paddington bear that's cute [46:44] That's cute. [46:46] Okay. [46:47] Oh, here's another inside out thing. [46:52] That's kind of an innovative mermaid. It's a kid's, yeah, it's a great, it's a great film, actually.

[46:57] um okay interesting magic my tops oh minions oh that's sexy minions sexy minions that's actually that's funny that's funny [47:06] Okay, should we pull up my sunglasses quickly? [47:08] Yes. [47:09] Okay, Kate, there's another. So this is one option. [47:12] Thank you. [47:12] Then there's another image as well. [47:15] Oh, I don't have it. Oh, Sherry needs to be let in. Okay. [47:21] Anyway, I feel pretty strongly I'm going to get them, but I think I need to get them secondhand. I think so, too. And I think I could just get a dupe, like a really good dupe. Yeah. Yeah. [47:28] But they're cool. [47:29] They're very cool. Hi. Hi. Just give us a few minutes. We're just wrapping up some important business here, Claire. [47:41] That if you have any ideas for what Natasha should be for Halloween. [47:45] Or where she could buy her sunglasses secondhand. Um, I actually do have a friend who has a contact that has like incredible sunglasses. Dude, I actually should text her and be like, what's up with this? Let's just call her now. Let's see if she hits. Okay. I'm like, no, don't. [47:59] Actually, I'm going to see her tonight. Um, anyway, at our, our dinner. Um, [48:03] Okay. [48:05] Should we bring over our next guest? Let's bring over our next guest. Claire. Claire, come on down. How's it going? Great to see you. Claire Carr. Welcome. Should I just pop in right here? You pop in. Right there. We might need to adjust your mic. Kate will tell us. You look great. Thank you so much. Are you? I mean, you're based in... [48:24] Don't talk. Bay Area. Okay. Okay. This region. This region. A decade plus now, which is kind of crazy to. Wow.

[48:32] think about where were you before not to also ducks like i guess your location history my life online yeah as we as all of us in this room i'm old so i feel like the idea of like remaining completely anonymous like that's tough hard yeah yeah yeah too many tag photos on facebook yeah my my early 20s yeah exactly facebook albums where it's like the whole yeah it's like no we [49:02] Austin. Oh, I seriously agree. Yeah. Did you like Austin? I loved it. I think from what I understand, I still go back there, but now I'm doing more, you know, like, [49:11] Parent stuff like not. I'm not in with the cool scene. OK, I understand it's changed a lot. What did you do your master's in? [49:19] I got my MBA. Okay. I do admit that and still work in crypto. 100%. I respect it a lot. Do we need help with the mic? Because we can adjust it. Is it? How does it sound? Keep it close. Oh, mine was too close. Okay. So CMO Aztec Network. Claire Carr. Hi. Just infamous at this point. Oh, God. Sorry. No, it's great. It's great. Here's what I like about you. [49:41] Not afraid to stir it up. Wow. Not afraid to stir it up. And seemingly you have a really thick skin, which I really respect about you. Thank you so much. Like genuinely. Thank you. It's like... [49:54] Yeah, it's impressive. It's, um, couldn't be either of us. I think I'm doing it a little bit better, but I do, like, yeah, you just, like, say it.

[50:03] You're like, this is what I think. I don't care. And I love that. Yeah, I have ideas. You have ideas. Yeah. Other people might disagree with them. And that's okay. That seems fine. Totally. But we're also like, there's just so much sensitivity and you don't seem to fatter to that. And I just, that's cool. Yeah. Well, thanks. I mean, look, I think there's. [50:21] I certainly have professional and personal boundaries around like what I feel is it okay to say and not say. Yeah. But then like if it's something that I think and I say it in a way that I feel like true to myself and respectful. Why not? Yeah. Yeah. Why not say it? Lessons for all of us. Totally. Okay. Aztec Network. Yeah. Can I tell you what I know of it and you tell me what's incorrect? Sure. Let's do it. Okay. Layer two focused on privacy. [50:48] You're a hundred percent. Oh my gosh. Before you're one of one. Great. Yeah. That's what I know. [50:54] That's all there is. No, you did great. You did great. So I'd love to learn more. I'd love to talk about it. Aztec is fascinating. So anyone who knows a bit of a story, like the founders have been building this now for eight years and about a year and a half ago, they invited me to come on board to lead their go-to-market and commercial strategy. So, um, you know, you don't find a lot of teams that are like, we're in this for the [51:18] keep peeling back the onion and like doing the hard thing. That's why I decided to join that and like a whole other rabbit hole around the [51:25] being frustrated with crypto, wanting to devote the next decade of my career to privacy, [51:31] All of those things. But yeah, they started building a product like eight years ago on Ethereum. They wanted to build like a debt product. And all these organizations were like, oh, okay, that sounds really cool. Oh, wait a second.

[51:44] everyone's going to see what we do. And like, literally it was like, you need to leave right now. Get out of our boardroom, you know? Um, so they were like, okay, right. So we have to build privacy, but crypto is like anti-privacy. It's like, it's like a surveillance tool. Yeah. Essentially. Like we built the world's most perfect surveillance tool. Um, and so then it's like, well, how do you keep like the public state, but also a private state. And that's been the really, really hard problem. Okay. They shipped a product in DeFi summer. That was like one of the [52:14] - Thank you. [52:14] You know, it's like back then it had, I think like quarter of a million. [52:19] quarter of a million, half a million wallets, unique wallets. And then they were like, wow, there's real PMF for privacy and decided instead of being a product company that they would shut that down and build the developer tooling so that other devs could build. [52:33] privacy products. Okay. Yeah. And, and so for a dev, you're like, you're integrating this into your stack. [52:41] it's like deep in the sack. Is that a good way to think about it? Yeah, that's a good way to think about it. So it's like, it's all these tools. It's everything from a programming language to obviously like the network. So you can build things with programming. That is completely what we call back-end agnostic, which means you could build something with Noir and deploy it anywhere, but you really get like the full benefit when you deploy it on a stack network because it's privacy native. Okay. Yeah. And why is privacy important to you?

[53:11] crypto, [53:12] You're like all the Facebook albums. [53:15] Oh, I can't say that. [53:18] No, I got into crypto because this idea of kind of like self-sovereignty, you know, and I think like that thread runs really deep for me through a lot of things in my life. Yeah. [53:28] I think as I spent more and more time in tech, in Silicon Valley, online, and just realized how much... [53:36] our self-sovereignty is sort of like corrupted by the fact that everything is observable. [53:43] I was just like privacy is like the number one digital human right. There's no definition of digital human rights right now. I think there will be in the next like five to 10 years. I think there should be a needs to be. [53:56] There's other ones that I hope are up there, but privacy absolutely has to be number one. So yeah, I think like modernity is kind of made it really hard to understand privacy, right? Like, think about 100 years ago, like what would be a violation of your privacy? [54:11] A hundred years ago? I don't know. 50 years ago. Right. Okay. Someone's looking in your window. Yeah. Yeah. That's a violation of your privacy. Yeah. That's so easy to conceptualize. Right. But right now you're like, Oh, everything you do on your phone is being, you know, abstracted away, sucked on to some algorithm. And then they retarget ads at you. You're like, wait, what, you know, what happened? It's not the, someone's creeping in my window. Right. So I feel like, you know, [54:34] Technology has been like this crazy runaway train, a lot of really good things, but it [54:40] Because it's so abstracted away, like our lack of privacy, it just feels very urgent to create a tool set the developers can actually use to start injecting privacy into things where consumers feel it matters.

[54:53] Are you a succession watcher? [54:55] Yes, I did watch it. Okay. Yeah, I did. There's a scene we love so much. Okay. And it's basically they're working on a campaign, and the campaign was We Here For You. Okay. And... [55:07] basically they can't put the campaign out because it [55:11] it comes through the grapevine, like through like... [55:15] Basically more lower level employees that then legal tells them we actually are listening. Yeah. So we can't have the campaign here for you. And it always when the privacy conversation comes up, that always comes up for me. And then also last week we had on Avi from the pendant. Yes. And what are your thoughts on that? [55:36] So I just did the, maybe I'm pronouncing it wrong, the Taya podcast. [55:39] Okay. Yeah. How's it? The jewelry. Yeah. I just did the like pre-sales. Oh, cool. I just ordered one. I'm like wondering when it's going to ship. I'm excited. Exciting. But I'm like, well... [55:51] What are my thoughts on it? [55:53] It's confusing. Right. And I think it goes back to this idea that like modernity and privacy are like really confusing. Like we haven't really defined like what the norms are around it. The Taya thing I actually think is confusing. [56:07] no offense to the type of people, like almost a little creepier because it's more understated. I wear a lot of jewelry, right? And so you might just be like, oh, okay, she's wearing another necklace. The friend thing to me is really obvious. I think some people sort of don't like it for that reason. I actually feel like you're sort of coming in with a statement of, hey, I am wearing whatever you want to call this, or a personal AI note taker. So yeah, I've been thinking about it a lot because I'm like the really demure ones that I think are cute.

[56:37] think like have more serious implications regarding the consent of others around you. Yeah. But yeah, I think it's really ill-defined. [56:46] And yeah, it's hard to understand. You had, you said... [56:51] Human digital rights. Is that the line used? Digital human rights. Digital human rights. Do you have other... [56:58] privacy makes a ton of sense as the primary one. Are there other things that you're thinking about in terms of [57:04] Those rights? I mean, I think a lot of them will, like, map to other human rights. Yeah. You know, like... [57:11] I think certain rights to online safety will be better defined for the digital era. I think our laws are very behind regarding what constitutes... [57:21] a lack of safety or like threats online. So I think a lot of the existing rights will be kind of retranscribed, but [57:29] in like a digitally native way, right? Like laws right now for online stalking are like, [57:34] They're so dated. So dated. You know, because, again, we were trying to fit – [57:39] like a digital... [57:41] framework on like a fit like the physical world so yeah do you think that [57:47] And like, it's going to be too hard to turn the ship now around privacy like that. We've gone... [57:54] so far down [57:57] a direction and like even in the uk in the past couple weeks there's been like even increasing like [58:03] *pfff* [58:05] some would say infringes on people's personal privacy online and digital spaces. And it's usually like,

[58:12] justified [58:14] through [58:15] Things that I think people... [58:18] I think is important, like for safety of children and, and that's like, [58:23] how I've seen a lot of those [58:26] what people might call privacy infringements being justified. And I just like, I don't know when, when you start to, to nest those two things together, [58:34] I don't know. It's hard to... [58:37] change minds around it and I'm just like wondering if you and also like [58:41] I mean, we're in Silicon Valley, like... [58:44] The... [58:45] it's all happening here and like there's a lot of money being spent on, [58:49] Surveillance. [58:50] technology and I just wonder. [58:52] Yeah, I mean, there's so much money being spent. Like some of it, you might argue is somewhat benign, right? Like, you know, ad trackers. Totally. You know, things where you're like, okay, that's maybe like the cost of using this infrastructure. Yeah. But then there's other, I think, like more, you know, government adjacent, like mass surveillance technology being developed. I don't, I don't know what the answer is. I think like. [59:14] that [59:15] sort of the way I see different technology waves is like these new technologies come about the coalesce like communities around them and there's like new paradigms and I think those are opportunities to maybe like reassert these things that I feel are important so for me crypto is [59:30] is that? Yeah. Yeah. Um, so it's like, because things are still being figured out because there's kind of like this new stack, do we get a chance to do it again? Um, and maybe we'll fail, you know, I like that. I don't know what the answer is, but it does feel like,

[59:45] because there is a new technological paradigm that's gaining traction. Yeah. An opportunity. Yeah. It's an opportunity. Yeah. Yeah. And then that is what we make it. Yeah. [59:56] Which is why, again, I feel like. [59:59] I don't know. I don't often like feel like, oh, I'm going to devote a certain period of my life to something. But I felt that way a year and a half ago. And that's that's why I'm here. Yeah. That's really I love that. It's similar to what could go right. Like, what can we do here? That's going to. Yeah. The ship in a direction we all want to be in. [1:00:15] Yeah, and I mean like, you know, [1:00:17] I get up and go to work every day, so I might as well go work on something that I feel like has a shot at doing something right versus something wrong. [1:00:25] wrong or at least like against my moral values and I mean privacy is also having a moment you know I was talking to someone I was in Singapore for token 24 years how was it it was actually I had so much fun um I I have avoided that conference okay for I've been in crypto now for like eight years wow I don't know how long token's been around but [1:00:44] You've avoided it for a while. I've avoided it. I've avoided it. Yeah, I always had good reasons, but then I was also like, if I don't have a good reason, I'm going to make up a reason. I don't want to go. I really like Singapore, and it was such a pulse on the market. Someone there told me, well, the best marketing tool for any product is the token. And I was sort of like, okay, I'm not going to debate you whether I agree with that or disagree with that. But during token, the conference, Zcash started pumping, right?

[1:01:14] is great. And so it does feel like privacy is having a moment and, you know, it was market-driven. I think [1:01:21] That's the way it looks. I think from my point of view, it was product driven because they launched like a really great product. I think people started using it and then it all sort of came from there. We can debate like why it happened, but privacy is having a moment is the point. [1:01:33] Well, I went to Token last year and I described it as a fever dream. I was like, what is going on? It was crazy. But I love Singapore too. But it's interesting. I mean, we go to so many conferences, so many Ethereum conferences primarily or builder centric conferences. [1:01:48] And it was one of the only conferences I've been to that it's just so, yeah, really gives you a sense of the market and a pulse on what people are. [1:02:00] what tokens people are buying. Like that was, and of course that's what it's for, but it was just so amazing. [1:02:06] culturally different than I think a lot of the other conferences we spend a lot of time at. Yeah. Um, [1:02:11] Okay. I have a question for you. Best... [1:02:14] and worst [1:02:15] crypto marketing campaign oh my gosh okay i think i have to name names if you're gonna ask me worse okay uh okay i'm scared too okay go ahead no don't be scared okay um [1:02:29] Okay, I always think back to the Super Bowl of 2022. Yes. When there were so many commercials, right? Oh, yes. Yes, yes, yes. Crypto Bowl or whatever. There were just so much ad space being dominated by exchanges. I love the Coinbase. Incredible. Ad. Yeah. The CMO at the time, Kate Roush. I don't know her. Kate, if you're listening. We love you. Yeah, I'm in your hands too. Hey, we're here.

[1:02:59] demo is. Yes, opening AI. So her DMs are [1:03:02] So we're probably not going to get a response. No, but I mean, just the QR code bouncing around. In a prior life, I worked at a startup that ran Super Bowl ads. Okay. I was, you know, working on the creative for those and the strategy behind them. And so I thought a lot about Super Bowl ads and having something that's so like against the grain, right? Because it's normally like puppies and ponies and rainbows and models and stuff. [1:03:26] You know, it's that thing, right? Yeah, it's Alex's girl eating a burger on a car. Exactly. It's like hot chicks and cute puppies. So to have something like so stripped down and just so against the grain and then also to have something where people would like actually interact with it. It's fascinating because, you know, the commercials are like at the bathroom break, right? Yeah. Or like if you sort of like. [1:03:47] and [1:03:48] Maybe you're skipping ahead. And for those who aren't familiar, it was just a white background and a QR code that was bouncing around. And that was it. And then it was like, I think after, maybe it was like Coinbase or something. I don't even remember. But if you scan the QR code, you went to their site, and then you had an offer for $15 of free Bitcoin if you created an account that day or something like that. I remember that account. I don't remember what the price of Bitcoin was. Right? You claimed it. I don't remember what the exact CTA was, but I think they had the second... [1:04:19] They went up to number two in the app store that day. They crashed their site. So obviously, like, from a marketing perspective, not just good creative, but also, like, good. Yeah, performant. Yeah, very performant marketing. But then the same year, it was, like, all the Gisele Bundchen stuff with FTX, where, like, she became their head of sustainability for me or whatever. And I'm, like, the only thing that's saving this is you're gorgeous. And other than that, like, you're not forgiven. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay, maybe spicier. There was that little...

[1:04:47] I'm going to sound so old. There was a little like penguin going around. It was like the abstract NFT and his shadow was like the, [1:04:55] can i say peanuts on here yeah whatever you want okay it was like the shadow was like the penis yeah like are we doing like yeah i don't love that i haven't said that but i do not like i don't want that i don't want that like i was just like please get all my time immediately yeah yeah okay well those are good those are good ones yeah um yeah that coinbase i remember i was at a friend's house and everybody was [1:05:20] sort of talking and whatever. And it was, you know, the ad. So like some people are, marketers are tuning in. Yeah. And also everybody else doesn't really care unless it's somebody, a celebrity they love or something. Yeah. And that ad came on and everybody was like, [1:05:31] Eyes on the screen, pulling out the front, everybody in the room. And I just started working crypto. And then it was like a Coinbase ad. And everybody was like, Natasha. And I was like, thank you. [1:05:43] But yeah, great ad. That's a good, that's a good one. I love that one. Okay. One more that I really didn't like. [1:05:49] And I usually, I really love Salam's marketing, but I don't know if you remember a couple months ago, they had an ad that was like kind of trying to get into that like anti-woke [1:05:57] trend. Oh, yes. For the Accelerate conference? Yeah, but it very much was like, I think like, kind of a, yeah, it was bad. And it was just, you know, attacking people. And then I'm like, you're attacking trans people. We work in crypto. Yeah. [1:06:11] Have you ever met a Rust developer? Have you ever met any of the cryptography? You know, there's such an amazing trans community in crypto who are –

[1:06:20] like a very strong community right yeah I'm just like what are you doing yeah this is not the way so I feel like they try to be spicy [1:06:26] I love their spicy takes, but I feel like whoever had that in their hands, it went way too far. And again, like you guys said at the beginning, like I'll go off or whatever I will. But I think those lines around like [1:06:37] being respectful, having a moral compass is totally really important. So I admire bold marketing, but that I felt really crossed. That was tasteless. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I have here in my notes and we're talking about what we're going to chat about today. Anti gatekeeping. Can we say, can you say some more about that? Oh yeah. I mean, okay. Okay. I'll say this. So I'm 42. Right. And I, yeah, I mean, [1:06:59] I think when I came up in tech, there was a huge gatekeeping culture. Like I still remember at a point in my career, [1:07:06] I met Sheryl Sandberg, like at the Facebook offices. And I mean, it's not like we had a ton of time to talk or it was like a one-on-one meeting or something. But I remember like, I was just not asking her for advice, but I was like trying to ask her something. And she was so like easy breezy about like, Oh, like, you know, like it's all too easy. And I'm just like, what? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Possibly easy. You know, and I was lean in and I'm like, you make me want to lean out. So I don't know. I feel like, I feel like the vibe in tech, [1:07:36] especially amongst women has been very like gatekeepy of like, maybe you have a lot of help at home and you don't share that. Or maybe you know something or have intros and it's like, you have to give them judiciously. Right. But I, I just feel like for anybody who's been in this industry for any amount of time or has any type of like experience under their belt, we have to welcome other people in. And I feel strongly about it in crypto because I,

[1:08:00] it's such an emergent industry. We really need to all be sharp. And there aren't that many of us. So if we're not like helping each other, like we're actively harming the industry. And I'm very against that. Yeah, I hear. I hear that. One thing that comes to mind is which we've talked about before in this podcast, but the most just thinking of careers and how we can be generous towards one another, the most generous, one of the most generous acts that you can do [1:08:24] and I try to do as much as I can, is speak people's names when they aren't in the room and to speak like powerfully and positively about people when they aren't there. And I will say one person who has always done that for us [1:08:37] is Sherry from A16Z. She's always like advocated for us when we're not there. So, and, and I, I guess like what that brings up is like, there's no benefit for her to do that because we're not there witnessing it. And like, but it's still such a generous and like selfless thing to do. And I [1:08:54] I've heard from other people when she has done that for us in the past, and it's meant so much to me that I'm like, that's something that I want to bring through as much as I can for other people. And with no hope of like, [1:09:07] any acknowledgement yeah or benefiting me in any way it's just like a totally selfless act and it's really cool yeah is there anything that you think people should get you [1:09:15] Because Kate this morning was like, bring back gatekeeping around a very specific thing. Oh, that's interesting. I guess I haven't thought about specific things, but I will say you have to use it judiciously, right? Like if someone comes to me and they're like, hey, interview me to this person. Totally. I'm like, well, first of all, if the intro doesn't make sense, no. That's respectful of the other person's time. And then I'm going to do like a double opt-in, right? Are you open to this intro? Yeah. I mean, it's not a free-for-all. Yeah.

[1:09:38] And you have to [1:09:40] you have to, [1:09:41] show up every day and be respectful and earn respect to get the anti-gate keeping vibe. [1:09:47] So yeah, it's not a free for all. Yeah. We should all try to do more of it. Yeah. I was at the SheFi conference in Singapore and they actually had a hat, anti-gate keeping club. Yeah, it was so good. I have it now and I'm like... [1:10:00] I wanted to wear it today, but I was like, am I going to wear a hat? I was like, I dress up once a month and leave the house without my toddler. Your hair looks incredible. Yeah, I'm glad. The hat looks great, but your hair looks great. I was like, this hair deserves, yeah. It's a really cute hat. It's a really cute hat. Did you see the Anthropoc stuff on the timeline, the Anthropoc hat? [1:10:18] Yeah. Okay. That was actually, I love how you guys do the in drafts. Like one of my drafts was about that. [1:10:27] Hat? Can we hear it? I mean, yeah. No, I was just like, I was like, [1:10:34] Okay, hang on. What did I say? [1:10:36] Okay, so for folks who don't know, I mean, I don't know how you could have missed it. There was a big pop-up this weekend in New York City. Anthropic partnered with Airmail, which is a publisher, and they gave out hats and had a sort of immersive experience around Claude. And it went off. And there was lines around the block. Yeah, and... [1:10:56] Lines around the block and also just timeline takeover. [1:11:00] Praise. Like, yeah, pretty, like... [1:11:03] like effusive praise in the timeline around it is what i saw but let's hear the drop i love the positioning by the way like the anti-slop like thinking thing so i thought it was great yeah but just like seeing people line up for tech swag so i think i said hang on i have to okay sitting in sf watching new yorkers queue up for tech swag is sending me today okay it's not the best feed but no i i i would have gotten a lot of love i think so too i was just like you know if you walk around sf like you have to like actively avoid people trying to give you their tech swag

[1:11:33] be at an event and you're like please no more tech side you know give me i i refuse i have boundaries yeah and i was like you guys are queuing up for this like that's so that's so cute yeah you don't have a lot of tech side there in new york one of the takes that i saw which was interesting and i think speaks to some white space for tech that um you know i'm not sure if you're a tech [1:11:51] If you want support on this, [1:11:53] partnerships at boysclub.bip. But I think that... [1:11:57] I wish I'd saved it, but the tweet sentiment was essentially like, oh, it's so clear that [1:12:02] people who work in tech or people who are excited about tech or optimistic about it. [1:12:07] have not had like [1:12:09] And-- [1:12:09] really high caliber marketing, lifestyle marketing, [1:12:12] directed at them. And there's something about like being seen, [1:12:17] something that felt tasteful and felt elevated around tech that was, [1:12:22] made a certain type of person who works in tech feel really seen. Yeah. I like that take. And it was like, there's room for this. There's more room for this and having an elevated sort of approach to it. And I think that's cool. I think it speaks to that, that there's not a lot of that. And I also think that it's like, [1:12:40] The other, some of the responses were like, [1:12:43] Yeah, tech people don't get invited to cool stuff. I have this one on the screen. You guys can see it, but I'll read it. Joseph Alessio, a nice free hat is making people switch their tech stack. I never want to hear about design and marketing being useless again, which I also think. [1:12:57] That's a cool take. Yeah. I did feel it was really well executed. I also love that they're like, I feel like the OpenAI approach just has a very different vibe. And so I don't know where the event was. Shout out to Kate Roach, who's the CMO of OpenAI. She's doing a great job. She's doing a great job. Who's the CMO of Claude? You know, I wish we knew that. Oh, yeah. But yeah, I think like the approach is so different. And whatever, like the cute pop-up shop, like it reminded me of like Glossier. Remember when Glossier was like doing their thing in the 2010s?

[1:13:27] Oh, how could we forget? In the West Village. At the altar of that church. Damn, I still have the pink bag. You know, so I'm like, or AI wrappers, like the new Glossier go to market. Wow. I hope they are. [1:13:40] Oh, man, that's funny. Claire, thank you so much for coming down. You're welcome. Anytime. Anytime you want to come back. I love it so much. [1:13:50] Oh, a comment. What's the ring? Oh, my God. Okay, I have an Aztec ring. Okay. Oh, cool. Because I'm, yeah. [1:13:57] But I, [1:13:58] I don't have it because my toddler put it somewhere. Oh. It's been misplaced. [1:14:05] It's on the feed, and I did try to put it on today. Great. I was like, where'd that go? Oh, no. It's shiny, so I kind of know where it went. [1:14:14] We'll do a cut down, and we'll pull the photo up front. It's really good. It's a huge gold ring. It can, like, compress into a wax seal. Oh, fun. It's pretty extra. That's really cool. Fun. Well, happy Q4. Thank you so much for coming. [1:14:28] And just love seeing you on the timeline whenever I see you. Thank you so much. This was super fun. Okay. We'll see you soon. [1:14:35] Great. Wow. What a fun time we're having. We're having a great – I don't think we should leave. I think we live here now. This is their home. [1:14:44] Let's bring your lights are warm. [1:14:46] Yeah, I appreciate it. I think... [1:14:50] you're okay with it i've just like i'm having a jet lag um body temperature fluctuations you know do you feel that way sometimes and like so i'm happy to have some

[1:15:01] Okay, should we bring Jill Gunter? [1:15:06] Up. Do it. [1:15:08] Thank you. [1:15:08] Hi, Jill. [1:15:10] Hi, welcome. Nice to see you. Okay, so Chief Tactics Officer at Espresso. I want to tell a funny story about [1:15:22] when I DM you to come on the show. Yes. Oh my gosh. Just make sure. [1:15:26] The mic is near you. For some time in my life, I've pulled the mic up to me. I'm five foot nothing. [1:15:35] Okay. So I was like, who want to have Bill on the show? And so I DM'd you. [1:15:43] And I saw in DMing you a DM from... [1:15:46] 2019 where hi this is me to you first of all just let the record show went unread and un replied to hi jill love your work i know that you're at the venture firm that you're working at and then i went on to basically pitch my startup and i was like we're not raising right now but we'll be in the fall if you have any interest in having a conversation either now or then i i would totally [1:16:16] thing to say. No worries if not. No worries if not. I'm just like, oh my God. You know, you see these things for your past selves and you're like, what? I reread it though. And I was like, this is textbook. This is textbook, like founder messaging the seed investor. Like we're

[1:16:35] But we have plans to in the fall. Respect your work. You tailored it. You personalized it. Yeah. I'm sad that I missed it. No worries. It wouldn't have been a good investment opportunity. No worries if not. Totally. Here we are. So here we are. Yeah. Thank you for answering my DM today. [1:16:57] Okay. So what's espresso? [1:17:00] So Espresso is a base layer infrastructure that's specifically geared at interoperability. And I can get into the what and the why of what that means. Let's do it. As with all things in crypto, that's a mouthful. Yeah. Yeah. [1:17:14] I want to learn. Yeah. Tell us the details. Cool. So I like to talk in stories. So I'll start there. I'll start with how Espresso got started. This actually has some overlap thematically, I would say, with what Claire just shared about tech, which is kind of cool. I co-founded Espresso with a bunch of huge nerds, great guys from Stanford, from the cryptography program there. [1:17:44] coin protocol, which I have to say would rip in 2020. Totally. I'm like, wow, that would be the vibe right now. But similar, I would say to a project like Aztec, similar to a lot of projects that got started like three, four or five years ago, we ran into all kinds of infrastructure problems. I know everyone wants it to be like app season today. And I do feel like finally, we were getting to a place where payments applications, prediction markets, DeFi,

[1:18:14] are ready for prime time. But let me tell you, trying to build an application three, four, five years ago [1:18:21] that would be acceptable for mainstream use, not happening. So we started trying to build this as an L2 on Ethereum. Maybe in another life, we actually would have been competitors with Aztec. I'm very happy to not be having to go head to head with the great Claire Cart and the team over there. But yeah, in another life, we would have been like a payments privacy oriented L2. But the [1:18:51] do secure and user-friendly interop between all of these roll-ups that are helping to scale Ethereum. And, you know, you don't want to be in a silo. Like, I think that there's a few good reasons that exist to use a blockchain, to use blockchain as your infrastructure of choice, to not just build a standard Web2 application. A lot of those reasons have to do with censorship [1:19:21] that you guys were just talking about on here in terms of kind of like ideals and freedom. But there are also some really practical reasons. And among those, I would say, like composability, this kind of money Legos quality of being able to build something that can like leverage technology. [1:19:38] part of what's happening in a different part of the environment where like, you know, you might have money locked up over here and you can take out a loan in this other application that references that. You can't even do that in TradFi, right? Like you have to go through days of paperwork, get, go to UPS, get shit notarized. Like it's not a good experience even in TradFi, right? To, to try to build these kinds of interoperable, composable financial applications. So that to me

[1:20:08] of crypto. [1:20:10] If our way of scaling crypto, though, is to have all of these different chains, all of these different on Ethereum, L2s, you know, whether it's like optimism, arbitrage, blah, blah, blah. Every L1 is kind of coming up with their own version of this. This just seems to be the only way. [1:20:27] to meet scale. [1:20:29] then you're just creating silos you're creating walled gardens and you're losing that kind of compostability and interrupt so what is espresso where does that come in this is [1:20:40] again, kind of the thing that we invented for ourselves to solve our own problem. And then at some point we're like, [1:20:46] Forget the product side. Forget the privacy stablecoin, which again would rip in 2025. We need to solve this much more fundamental problem. So it's a... [1:20:58] in many ways it's a blockchain itself and it holds state between different environments, different L2s, different chains, hopefully someday different L1s as well. [1:21:09] Is it... [1:21:11] Fair to say it's a bridge? [1:21:12] Or no? It's not. Yeah. So this is actually a huge point of, um, [1:21:17] confusion. I probably just need to do a better job with the comms on it, but Bridges actually use espresso. Today, if you're moving between two L2s, let's say you're trying to move between [1:21:30] Ape chain and arbitram. Okay. [1:21:33] You've got money, say, on Arbitrum, and you're trying to participate in a mint that's happening on Ape Chain. I'm using this example because I've done it. Okay. Okay.

[1:21:42] Today, you can do this a few different ways. You can use a bridge. [1:21:47] And, you know, [1:21:49] there's some kind of like trusted system that's usually happening underneath that bridge where the bridge can maybe fulfill it instantly. But there's – [1:21:57] So, there's a reliance there on a piece of centralized infrastructure, which [1:22:04] starts to erode some of the purpose, right? Like the second you introduce centralized infrastructure into these systems, in this case, it's called a centralized sequencer. - Okay. [1:22:15] you're just eroding some of the value prop of using a blockchain. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Okay. Like now we're taking half steps back to just being a web app and maybe we should just do that to begin with. Um, [1:22:28] Or you can wait 15 minutes for Ethereum to finalize. [1:22:31] And use a bridge that relies on a theory. Yes. Who has not been there? Oh, my God. I mean, I remember my early days of getting into crypto. The first time I sent a Bitcoin transaction and Bitcoin, of course, is like way worse than Ethereum is. [1:22:48] And it took 60 minutes to go through just dying. Praying. Honestly, found God at that point. Like, you know, I'm convinced that I've typoed something. I'm just, I'm never going to see this money again. Yeah. Um, [1:22:59] And of course, you know, you're like, oh, this money is going to appreciate and value. And then, you know, I'm just always going to be on this. Yeah, totally. But, you know, if you look at, though, where a lot of the biggest hacks have happened over the years.

[1:23:14] So many of them have been in bridge infrastructure. Okay. Bridging is a really, really hard problem. And so the ideal way of bridging actually is to, you know, wait for Ethereum finality. If you're in the Ethereum ecosystem. Okay. Or wait for, you know, whatever it is, Bitcoin finality or Solana finality. Okay. [1:23:34] But all of these things take a really long time. This is a problem of fast finality that sometimes gets referenced. We talk a lot about this in our more kind of technical documentation, like the fast finality problem. And that's what we're solving. So chains and applications, they post to Espresso, maybe at the same time that they post to Ethereum, [1:23:57] we provide that finality faster than Ethereum does, but still in a decentralized, distributed, you know, highly robust, secure, resilient manner. Okay. Yeah. [1:24:09] Okay, let's pivot to Zcash. [1:24:12] Yeah, there was a ton of news and price action that happened around Zcash. I think, first of all, maybe give folks what is Zcash and then we can talk about sort of what happened this past week or weekend. I love that crypto is in its privacy era. [1:24:25] Right now. Again, I mean, part of me is kind of like the privacy stablecoin thing. But again, we need all of this infrastructure for all of this to be relevant. Zcash is kind of interesting, though, because Zcash has been... [1:24:38] around since 2014. [1:24:41] I want to say it was one of the earliest crypto projects after Bitcoin, not counting sort of like Litecoin and Dogecoin, those earliest forks of Bitcoin. Zcash was one of the earliest cryptocurrencies I became familiar with, maybe even before Ethereum. And what I found compelling about it and what is still true about it is that it's attempting to solve for privacy.

[1:25:11] Much as my parents think that like, oh, crypto means encryption and like this, you know, criminals are using this stuff because because it's all private. No, it's it's all out there. This is actually something interesting that came up in a lot of our early user testing as we were working on a privacy direction in the very earliest days of Espresso. Was that really actually a lot of people in crypto at the time? And I think that this has been true. [1:25:37] up until very recently, actually really valued the transparency of crypto. Where, like, it's kind of cool. I mean, okay, there was nothing cool about FTX happening, the whole FTX blow up in 2022. But it was kind of cool to be able to sit there and, like, literally on Etherscan, [1:25:55] watching these like, oh, I remember this. Yes. Of DeFi happen. You know, it's like watching the 2008 crisis. Yeah. Happen like micro scale, thankfully, in real time. Yeah. Yeah. [1:26:08] On your computer screen, it was like ether scan or like watching things move around your people were conjecturing like, oh, that's like SPF making off with the funds like all of that. None of which I think ended up being true, but wild that you can see this stuff in real time. And then all of the games that people can play to try to make money off of. [1:26:30] Sandwich attacking trades and things like this and DeFi. [1:26:35] So, you know, I think in many ways, like the transparency of it. [1:26:39] has been... [1:26:41] a great thing and something that people have really come to appreciate.

[1:26:45] But... [1:26:46] You know, ironically, it's kind of like the two different ends of the spectrum in terms of user base who care most about privacy. So in the very earliest days, you know, a lot of the earliest folks behind Zcash were like the real OG cypherfunks. Like these were people who, you know, had sort of. [1:27:06] fought, quote unquote, in the crypto wars around like making sure encryption stayed legal in the US, like back in the 90s. There was all of this controversy there. These were people who really believed in privacy from [1:27:19] almost a human rights perspective and, you know, kind of really holding fast to these ideals. Again, ironically, today in 2025, 10 years later, [1:27:29] 10 years on from the invention of Zcash, [1:27:32] I think the reason why it's having such a big resurgence now is because corporates are coming in to, you know, [1:27:38] the blockchain and crypto world for the first time really in earnest and looking around and saying, [1:27:44] okay, wait, but no, we need, we can't just have everything be open. Okay. So I think that that's been a big part of the catalyst. But yeah, Zcash is amazing. They've been around again for 10 years, kind of languishing for the last... [1:27:58] six, seven. And then in the last year of [1:28:02] bounced 400%. And then in the last week, have had a crazy pump. Yeah. Oh, I think most of that 400% has been in the last week, literally. And is that just like price action begets price action? Or was there something else that was happening? I think a lot of it, to be honest, is price action begets price action. There's been a few big, loud voices and also initiatives that have gone on around Zcash. So I guess if I was to break it down into a few categories, I think

[1:28:31] One shout out to the Zcash team. Josh Swihart over there is amazing. He has been amazing. [1:28:38] toiling away on this thing for the last five years. Zuko is kind of the legend behind Zcash and really made it happen, is still deeply involved with the project. And they started investing in trying to make Zcash more usable. [1:28:54] at somewhat of like a base infrastructure level, um, [1:28:58] maybe five years ago. And I think they're just now reaping and referring to that. So I think partly- That's a timeline you don't see in crypto. Totally. I mean, I think partly it just goes to show like, [1:29:10] "You've got to stick with this stuff." [1:29:13] And [1:29:14] I can only imagine... [1:29:16] what it felt like to be on that team in year, like four and a half of toiling away. Prudal. And you're just like, is anyone going to care? And then you just hit this curve. I think secondly, there have been some cool partnerships that have happened. So, [1:29:32] This actually relates back a little bit to what we care about at Espresso, kind of the interop between chains. Zcash for the longest time has just been its own island. And... [1:29:44] it wouldn't get listed or like it would get listed by exchanges and then get those revoked because it's privacy. And, you know, people didn't want to touch that, especially regulated entities, exchanges. They didn't want to touch that with a 10 foot pole. So then like, how do you even get people to, [1:29:58] to be able to buy it and on ramp to it, like these really hard, hairy problems. Near is a protocol that is also working on kind of cross blockchain interop. And they have they've also been around forever. And really cool to see kind of like what our powers combine, like near and Zcash now. They've made it a lot easier for people to onboard to Zcash. So that's been part of it. And then the third thing, they've just gotten some really big, loud voices and advocates.

[1:30:28] around them and just, I think, turned on the marketing side. But, yeah. [1:30:34] Thank you so much for teaching me because I was like, what's what's occurring here? OK, final thing here. You had texted me before we got on a link between Taylor Swift and crypto that you want to chat through. OK, thank you for giving me this. Say more. Say more. [1:30:50] Okay, I actually... [1:30:52] This is not in drafts. I did tweet this. I don't have my phone on me. And I tweeted this like four years ago or something. And I said, uh, [1:31:01] Someday I would like to write a dissertation on how Taylor creating the like Taylor's versions of her song, giving big middle finger to Scooter Braun, who, you know, sold her record label, wouldn't let her buy it back. And, you know, she recreated the albums that he had ownership of, how this relates to crypto and the double spend problem. And then I ran a poll and I was like, should I do this? [1:31:31] Based all over the world, too. Like, I don't know how. I mean, I guess Taylor's pretty popular globally. But they all said no. It was like a 76% no. Forget them. All right. I guess this blog post is going to wait. But thank you for platforming me. I feel like your audience might actually appreciate this. [1:31:48] Crypto, again, it's good for only a few things, really. Like censorship resistance is one of them. This kind of like composability interop thing is one of them. But what it really comes down to is digital scarcity. And like that's probably a set of words you all have not heard since the NFT boom in 2021. But that is what it's about. Like what is Bitcoin about? It's digital scarcity.

[1:32:10] You know, what were NFTs about? Again, digital scarcity. You might say, you know, that was all hype and nonsense. I actually don't think so. [1:32:18] But what Taylor Swift did, so Taylor Swift created all of these albums, like her life body of work, this incredible opus of songwriting and music. And she, like most artists, did not have ownership of it. And it got sold on without her okaying it. And she created her own double spend problem here. And the double spend problem in crypto, it's like what the Bitcoin white paper kind of famously solved. [1:32:48] whether it's a song or a token, whatever, it's really hard to prove that it only exists in one place. [1:32:55] at one time. And Taylor Swift basically [1:32:58] sold, you know, initially, and then they got sold onward, her body of work. [1:33:03] And then she double spent it and said, I'm just going to recreate it. And, um, [1:33:08] And I think that there is like this huge kind of, [1:33:11] philosophical overlap between what she did and the problems that crypto [1:33:17] solves. And I think it's actually fascinating to just think of all of the, [1:33:21] applications of digital scarcity in our lives. This is though, I think also a good showcase of how you can't really solve for IP theft. [1:33:30] with a blockchain, like there's all of these blockchains that claim to solve for [1:33:34] IP duplication, but you know, if you're the creator of the IP, [1:33:40] You know, you can always go create it again. Of course, there might be legal issues with that, but.

[1:33:45] For Taylor, there weren't, and she won. So, yeah. I'm glad you got to. That's my little Swifty diatribe. I love it. Okay, so just ending here, how did you feel about the new album? Do you feel about the new album? [1:33:57] I like it. It always takes me a few listens. Okay. So not an enthusiastic. Yeah. I don't know. I like her kind of. [1:34:05] Like, I liked her sort of deep emo eras of Lauren Evermore. And then 1989 as like a basic East Coast pop girly. I feel like that will always be. Yeah. In your heart. Yeah, exactly. But no, I like it. [1:34:22] Have you guys listened? [1:34:25] We're not really fans, but I have to say... We're not. No, no, no. I actually did. I listened to the whole thing actually a couple times this weekend because I wanted to understand the zeitgeist. [1:34:38] And... [1:34:38] uh yeah i didn't it's it's not for me but i i don't like to yuck other people's yum you know what i mean like i have kids i'm like when you did no i'm just kidding oh no but like truly i'm like i i it's i i think for here's what i will say about tellership for a lot of people especially women i know that [1:34:56] that she really speaks to them and like that brings like meaning and yeah and like a voice to things that I love and so and for me I'm like that's great then that should exist more of that in the world um but uh [1:35:11] Yeah. Yeah. [1:35:12] um jill thank you so much jill thank you for coming this was so great i learned so much i so appreciate your time no thank you can i also just say this room is amazing there are so many drinks

[1:35:24] around this room. We had a lot of drinks. The first thing I thought was like, this is a girl's room. I mean, this is like boys club, but there's a lot. You know, there's a meme of like girls with 18 drinks on the table. We have here, we have a coconut water. It's so great. So you guys are awesome. Big fan. [1:35:42] Thank you so much. I will tailor pill you. Great. Great. Great. Bye. Thank you so much. The Zcash story is a story about holding. Sure is. Sure is. You never know. Stop. Stop. Stop. You don't know me. I know. But I'm happy for everyone else. Happy for everyone. We have a few minutes before our next guest. And I think we should talk about what is taking over my timeline. [1:36:11] which is probably taking over years too. [1:36:12] Polymarket. Polymarket, big news today. Congrats to the guys. Huge congrats. $2 billion. [1:36:18] raised a strategic investment from all [1:36:22] I-C-E, which is the owner of the New York Stock Exchange. Mm-hmm. [1:36:26] Huge, huge. What does it put their valuation at? [1:36:29] $9 billion. [1:36:31] A cool, quick sign with the B. So crazy. And I think even more so than the money of it all, which, of course, people are talking about and – [1:36:40] as they should. It's just... [1:36:43] who it's from and how strategic that is or what it means for, [1:36:49] basically tokenized assets is exciting. Is that the plan? I've seen a lot of that, yeah, where people are saying like –

[1:36:56] Yeah, a signal to [1:37:00] a buy-in from the New York stock exchange for something that is an on-chain product is exciting. People are enthusiastic about it. The other thing that I saw, which... [1:37:10] I wish I could find it here quickly because [1:37:14] Is this it? Yes. [1:37:16] Just a reminder, these guys believed in Polymarket before anyone else could. [1:37:20] And it's showing their first race and some of the investors and, um, [1:37:25] Shout out to Meltem and Stani. [1:37:28] They're sitting pretty. Wow. They're sitting pretty. It's really. Sonny needed more money. I think he. He was in need. He needed more money. He's definitely. No, he's done some incredible moves. And obviously. And Nelson too. Nelson in awe. [1:37:42] You know, it's inspiring. It's truly inspiring. Yeah, it is. I love to see people make money. I love to see it. I really do. Yeah, totally. Totally. Totally. It's a funny thing to say. Yeah, I listened to not to weigh in. [1:37:58] But I guess to weigh in, what else are you doing in a live stream except to weigh into things? But I listen to... [1:38:04] Okay. [1:38:05] Tarek, [1:38:07] Okay. From Calci, House Calci was on Odd Lots. [1:38:11] last week and he was talking about the Kelshi [1:38:16] story and um [1:38:19] It was a really interesting listen. And I will say that he, the way he spoke about sort of on chain stuff,

[1:38:27] was very... [1:38:30] Thank you. [1:38:31] honestly pragmatically but also like not dismissively but it was certainly not a priority okay and that's was clearly a totally different strategy for how mark polymarket came to market and how they built the architecture of the product yeah and so um anyway just interesting it was interesting interview and like really a different vibe like he came from like citadel i think he's like a okay uh that type of guy um [1:38:54] and yeah a different archetype and i think competition is good and healthy totally i love to see let's go let's go kalshi let's go polymarket um should we bring our next step up next step okay zara stone come on down [1:39:08] Yay. We're so excited to chat with you about everything. So excited to chat. Nice to meet you. Hi, thanks for being here. [1:39:16] Yeah, happy to be here. Okay, Zarsone, culture tech reporter at the San Francisco Standard. [1:39:23] Okay, you... [1:39:25] I gotta tell you. [1:39:26] we have been nonstop talking about Chinese peptides for the past 24 hours. It's actually becoming, no, it's a problem. It's an issue. It's an issue. So you, you recently wrote a piece for the, um, [1:39:39] You recently wrote a piece that was called Everyone Has a Chinese Peptide Dealer Now. [1:39:44] What's going on? I mean, everyone might be a little hyperbolic, but especially in Silicon Valley, when you're in the parties, when you're in the startups, when you're just, you know, randomly looking in somebody's fridge, there are all these vials, these syringes, a lot of the alcohol swabs. And this is becoming more and more present.

[1:40:04] And I think peptides really, for people who don't know, they're short chain amino acids, which probably means nothing. But a Zempick is a peptide. And that's really what got the whole idea of peptides kind of on the map, kind of beyond just the biohacking circuit. [1:40:19] Mm-hmm. [1:40:20] Go ahead. We're both like... Okay. And it's a fascinating... It's like such a fascinating read. People must go check it out. We will put it in the chat. But essentially... [1:40:34] People are... [1:40:36] And. [1:40:36] You explained what a peptide is and just visually so people know it's like a little vial that you use a syringe and you inject it. Yes. And there is a variety of types of peptides that people can take and any combination of peptides that people can take. They do it for a variety of reasons, weight loss, hair growth, skin, nails. [1:40:59] Anxiety was one of them that I didn't know about. And. [1:41:02] People are, they are not FDA approved. [1:41:05] No. Okay. And people are taking them for all these reasons and they are needing to get them on what you call the gray market and are arriving from China. And then there's dealers, sellers in different cities around the world. And specifically, you're speaking to the culture in Silicon Valley around it. Um, [1:41:28] When then people are talking to their dealers, they're buying them, and then they're taking these peptides for all these reasons. Is that like a fair sort of... Yeah, that's a good overview. Okay. Okay. And so...

[1:41:37] And you go into a few different stories of individuals who are taking them. [1:41:42] And I would say, [1:41:44] Reading it, I went in really skeptical. I had been hearing about peptides from... [1:41:50] the boys club team and tick tock as their general practitioner. I was like, I don't know. And then I read your article and I was kind of like, [1:42:00] I don't know. This is compelling. This is pretty compelling. And I'm curious, [1:42:06] If you... [1:42:08] If you were skeptical going into writing the piece, if your mind was changed, like what was your experience sort of learning about this phenomenon that's happening? I mean, I think the idea of, you know, getting something in the mail from China with like strange lettering on it, putting it in your freezer, getting the syringes, getting the teriostatic water because you have to mix the powder in the vial of it. And then injecting yourself really did just seem bonkers. You're like, well, it's not going through a doctor. It's like, what do I know about it? [1:42:38] How is this going to work? And then the more I learned about it. So a lot of the peptides, some of the more popular ones that people are using, like BPC 157, which is good for muscle recovery. And I'm not saying it's good. I'm saying this based on a bunch of different studies. Yeah, totally. About this used to be able to get legally in America till around 2023. OK. And then the FDA, they went and put it on a list where it was like, hey, we're not too super sure if this is great.

[1:43:08] But up till that point, like loads and loads of people had been taking it. And I think going with this sort of broader distrust in the FDA, because and going back to the Olympic example, during COVID, there was a shortage. Everybody wanted it. Suddenly you could get it way cheaper from a compounding pharmacy legally. Yeah. So instead of paying, I don't know, a thousand dollars. [1:43:30] or whatever without insurance, you could get it for $200 from Roe or him and hers. Now, because there's no shortage, you can't sell it, this is legal anymore. Everyone's like, [1:43:45] It was okay like last week and not this week. And I think everyone is really just struggling with that idea. And I mean, some of the more esoteric peptides is like a different bracket, but some of the ones that you could get till 2023, I think people are like, well, I know this worked for me or my friend or whoever, and feel a lot more comfortable about it. [1:44:03] Yeah. Why do you think it's taken such a stronghold in society? [1:44:08] San Francisco, like I'm, I live in Nashville and no one's, no one's, at least no one in my circle are taking peptides. Why here now? [1:44:19] I would say it's common in New York too. [1:44:20] like New York coastal tech bubbles. But like in your article, you're talking there, you have this incredible story about an office that does, [1:44:30] like an all hands on Friday where they're all getting peptides Fridays. Peptides Fridays. Yeah. Peptide Fridays. And they were saying it's like you were saying that.

[1:44:43] Like it's a way to get people is to give them a peptide shot. That's crazy. And like, yeah. Curious why you think that's happening here. [1:44:53] I mean, it's a more interesting perk than just having a sauna. Very interesting. It's a very interesting perk. It's getting Natasha in the office. I'm there. I don't know what company that was, but are you hiring? Are you like... [1:45:05] Yeah, do you think it's a longevity thing? Do you think it's like early... [1:45:09] Like people who are into tech are early adopters. They're like open to innovation. Like, what do you think? I mean, I think it's a combination. The Peptide Fridays company is a kind of longevity AI concierge company. So they're self-selecting for a certain type of. So we're already, you know, doing the red light therapy, a bunch of other cold plunges. And I guess these are all pretty standard now. So we're already doing a bunch of things. And this is kind of just their latest thing. But many other companies who it might not be as, you know, advertised that way. [1:45:39] it's still not uncommon to have a bunch of people just injecting or even keeping their medication in there [1:45:44] you know, AI for... [1:45:46] uber fridge stuff like that and i think part of it again really ties into the sort of self optimization culture of silicon valley yeah yeah like you know you work hard you play hard um you kind of work extreme hours and for some people like this kind of balances out some of the you know the poor sleep will the other stuff we're doing or for other people it's just adding into this like broader package whether you [1:46:10] Kind of like the update to the quantified cell for like, I know my sleep score. I know my blood scores. Like I'm doing this amount of peptides. It's potentially improving this number by this and this constant measuring effect.

[1:46:22] And I think, again, like when you're in tech, right, like your job is to measure. You're like, what are my metrics like? Who are my users? So starting to apply that to yourself doesn't. [1:46:31] Seem that weird when you're already in this bubble where that's all you do? Yeah. [1:46:36] Yeah, it's [1:46:39] You talk about a few, you go into a few different things. [1:46:42] individuals and I was struck by [1:46:46] Actually, the... [1:46:48] like sort of breadth of the financial space [1:46:52] commitment that it is. Like you speak about one guy who's spending $5,000 a month on his cocktail of peptides. Um, and then there was, um, [1:47:00] Sort of like still privileged and excessive, but there was like the lower end. I think that was like a few hundred dollars a month, basically. [1:47:09] And [1:47:11] Yeah, I wonder if you could just talk a little bit about [1:47:14] what you think is, [1:47:16] the money of it all is like there's like a real range of how much people are spending on it and why and then also like that is also self selecting for somebody who has means to. [1:47:25] optimize and tinker with what they look like or what they feel like, whatever. [1:47:29] No, absolutely. And I would say to an extent, Chinese peptides in some way are a bigger equalizer. Like there was a guy who was spending five thousand a month and included like a Wolverine stack, which is a combo of peptides basically meant to make you very buff and also like help you recover quicker. OK. And then there's, you know, the glow peptide stack. That's like some you take for like skincare and it's meant to make you glow. I tried it briefly, didn't try it for long enough to have any effect. Just got a bruise.

[1:47:59] Okay, keep going because I'm so curious about like results and stuff, but carry on. But then, so some of them, especially like that guy, the Wolverine stack, who was taking a really high amount really regularly, he was spending a lot. But for a lot of people who, I don't know who the average pet type user is now, who's buying stuff from China, like I think they could probably get a similar stack for themselves for like $100 to $200 a month. So it doesn't just have to mean you're super wealthy to get access to it. Yeah. [1:48:29] these people like do they look incredible like or are they like [1:48:33] I mean, I mean, most of these are like 20 something guys. So I would say, yeah, right. Hard to know. Like there's no real A-B testing. [1:48:44] It does start to like, um, now I'm like, Oh, this is what all the Hollywood actors are doing that when they're getting ready for their, [1:48:58] Wolverine, like Iron Man, Marvel. They're doing all of this. It's like a full suite of things. Totally. And it's revealing, I think, of something that you maybe just assume like, wow, they're really eating clean and exercising. But like, there's a whole support system. Yeah. And I think like some of these, though, are [1:49:19] and [1:49:20] legal or like FDA. Well, GOP one is certainly FDA. Iterations of it are FDA approved in OSEMPIC and WGOVI and all that. And then there's also NAD plus, which I see advertised. I guess people are doing national. I see that advertised as like a longevity cellular repair one.

[1:49:41] But the ones that are coming from [1:49:44] China, [1:49:45] are are not and can you talk about like why there's this sort of difference of the two sure so i'm one really kind of popular one at the moment um returotide um is sometimes called like glp3 so glp1 is a zempic right okay glp2 is i think that's like monjaro glp um glp3 is they call like a triple agonist so it has like glp1 glp2 and another kind of peptide combined and so [1:50:15] Eli Lilly. Okay. So I think it's in stage three clinical trials right now because it like again it helps with weight loss hunger and also helping you keep muscle which is one of the issues that we have with Zempec. Okay. So people who are in the scene are like well that sounds great. I want that but actually right now you wouldn't be able to access it because it's only in clinical trials. Okay. And so there's already a level of trust with the concept of the GLP peptides that people [1:50:45] it's actually way cheaper to order it this way yeah than just to pay for glp1 okay okay um [1:50:53] Yeah, I think, do you remember the brand? I mean, it's still around, but The Ordinary? Yes. Okay. So... [1:50:59] In doing some research for this interview, we got some websites from people around where we could order some peptides. And the feeling I had navigating these websites was the same feeling I had when...

[1:51:12] with the ordinary where it was like the ordinary is a skincare brand. And the whole premise is that all of these sort of active ingredients that are in all of your skincare are actually quite affordable. And it's just branding and the combination of those, um, [1:51:27] those elements that and charge crazy amounts and then i would go to the ordinary and i would just be like i'm not a dermatologist yeah and part of the ordinary was like in [1:51:37] In stripping back the branding, they also had this like rat and have still have like this radical like transparency around it's it's ingredient first packaging. Yeah. And marketing. And so you have to be really fluent with like, oh, that's the yeah, the active ingredients and to know how to stack them and pair them and like. [1:51:58] that. [1:51:59] It seems to be the same case. And the feeling I had, I was just like, I'm just going to pay... [1:52:04] just going to pay whatever it is to do this for me. I don't trust myself to do it. And then, [1:52:09] This even more so, I... [1:52:12] I was like, man, I... [1:52:14] injecting something into my body that I have concocted basically myself is not, I don't think the thing to do. And then I feel like, [1:52:25] The thing... [1:52:26] You were saying like, oh, are they going to be effective? Like that was your... [1:52:31] Or like, are they going to have [1:52:33] side effects like going to whatever something bad going to happen and my concern was like oh you're just paying all this money and it's snake oil like it's just like you talk about one person who was taking a peptide specifically for anxiety and had all this relief around their anxiety and I was like is that just like

[1:52:51] um, [1:52:52] a placebo effect. So I'm curious if that's [1:52:56] if you came across that in your research, if people talked about that? I mean, I'd say a lot of kind of the doctors and researchers, like peptides are real. They're not imaginary things. Yeah, right. Like they've been around since the 1920s. And I think around the 1950s, we got like newer technology. So they started being synthesized more like there's, I think, like hundreds of thousands of them at the moment. But like very few are actually being used in like clinical drugs. OK, so it's like the research space is still pretty nebulous. Like people will be like, well, there's lots of research in Russia. [1:53:26] just in another way. [1:53:29] document okay um but i would like one of the ways around that is uh you can pay kind of for quality to an extent like there's a couple but not many um american doctors who will prescribe you peptides um they have like a sort of weird gray area workaround with compounding pharmacies but i've spoken to some and they go to the factories and they test and they do all these okay there's like a concierge doctor the concierge so your concierge prices yeah [1:53:56] You know, the ones from China are still going to be a little nebulous. And to fix that, like a lot of people are like, I want to spend this money. Like, I want it to work. I don't want to inject sugar, which I think would be very healthy. [1:54:10] And so there's actually like a whole subset of people who have like peptide testicles, right? [1:54:16] um it was like a bunch of different telegram channels and like you know people like across the country like i really want to test retta so they bought a book buy it together then they send off some files okay smart really smart yeah that's cool voice the water yeah i'm like okay anyone want to go in on one it's like a botox bank okay and then they get it tested yes okay one of the ways um another way is um there's a company called finrick okay um oh you talked

[1:54:46] Yeah, there's a guy who was very annoyed that he couldn't really figure out what the quality was. Like, he's like, I'm OK with going outside of, you know, the FDA system. But like, I, you know, I don't want to inject dodgy stuff, but I still really want it. Yeah. And so his thing was that there's like not really any transparency. So he's like, I mean, it's a business, but it's not really making money. So I don't really understand the model. It's possibly a side project, which is great. [1:55:15] send him peptides and he sends them to a bunch of labs and they test for like quality the potency potency is actually super important because say you buy a vial of 10 milligrams and actually has like 15 in it you're going to be overdosing but like the whole time when you're like oh i think i'm going to do this um you won't you probably won't really get very sick you might have like more like constipation or kind of side effects generally i haven't really [1:55:42] any major issues people taking to [1:55:44] I mean, [1:55:47] It's like injecting badly, like sepsis, and that's more of the application. Yeah. The actual peptide, like you do too much, you might be really dehydrated, you might go really sick, you're not going... [1:55:57] pretty unlikely like you can have any major injury okay yeah okay wow really really really interesting I I was sent um I don't want to dox who sent it to me but I I was sent uh stack and [1:56:11] that is like six someone's [1:56:14] the spoke sack of a regime yeah of six that they've chosen and it's a woman too i also think the other part of it is a lot of dudes and so like the wolverine pack for example

[1:56:25] Someone designed that. There's something there, but we're not going to take that. So I do have one in my DMs if anyone's interested to message me, and I can share the stack that I will share. We'll just take a tiny little cut. I'm just going to take a little bit off the top. Yeah. [1:56:41] Yeah, it's really crazy stuff. [1:56:43] Do you think that [1:56:45] This is actually... [1:56:46] this movement is... [1:56:49] going to be something that is [1:56:51] 10, 15 years is actually very common and everybody's doing this, or do you think it's going to continue to be sort of this like niche, [1:57:00] like Silicon Valley or tech community, like, [1:57:03] like um yeah i mean i think it'll go mainstream i guess i mean before is mpeg i would have been like yeah no there's no way people are doing this in 10 years that like super normalized the idea of totally 100 yeah across the board and i do see peptides going the same way like i think more relations so you're getting [1:57:22] it delivered in a way where you don't actually have to mix it yourself. Yeah. Even if the prices are a little higher. [1:57:28] I think there'll be more research. I think it's not like the magic cure, but they do a bunch of good stuff. [1:57:37] like everything you're injecting you already have in your body but just like [1:57:41] much smaller doses. Yeah. Um, I'll get into it. I'll, I'll sign up for a subscription when it's like goop boxing. I'm not, I'm not saying you have to pet light either. Yeah. No, no, no, no, we know. Um, I want to, we have just a few minutes left here, but I want to ask you about, um, you've written a book.

[1:57:59] called Killer Looks, The History of Plastic Surgeries in Prisons. Can you give us like a little bit, tell us more about this book and how you wrote it and what it's about? Sure. Basically, it's really hard when you're in prison and when you come out to get a job. Like people are very biased against you and being in prison probably means you've had like bad access to healthcare. Maybe you've been in fights, you'll be less conventionally attractive. So there was a big [1:58:29] UK from around the 1920s to the 1990s to give people free plastic cosmetic surgery, facelifts, and bootstraps. [1:58:40] with the idea that when they went out, it would be easier to reintegrate into society. [1:58:45] Oh, that's crazy. That's not what I thought you were going to say. And so why and why did it wind down? [1:58:54] because people didn't like prisoners getting free surgeries they couldn't get. [1:58:58] Wow. [1:59:00] And what was your experience of writing the book? Were you going to prisons and talking to people who had had, like, what was that experience like? So I spoke, I didn't go into prisons because a lot of this, [1:59:10] It was written during COVID, but I did speak to people who had had the surgeries in prison. I spoke to a lot of the doctors and psychologists who operated on people. [1:59:19] One of my surprises was like 98% of all the surgeries were on men. [1:59:23] Oh, wow. Oh, wow. [1:59:25] Partly because there are more men in prison. [1:59:28] partly because of sexism and people don't think women in prison really should get

[1:59:33] you know the same like they have less education they have like all these like they just don't get the same opportunities wow um wow what an interesting read um well this was so so interesting and i'm so glad you came on and really appreciate um just learning about these things like i think the wellness science um collab is something i'm really interested in so it's really nice to have you on talk about it yeah great chatting to you guys thank you so much um okay so you're gonna [2:00:03] Bye. Oh, no, no, no. You're good. Thank you. [2:00:09] I want to start a peptide trap. [2:00:11] a peptide telegram group so anyone who wants to join [2:00:16] Let us know. Let us know. I'm going to start it. And I think what I'm mostly interested in is... [2:00:22] Thank you. [2:00:23] Um, efficacy, like I want to track someone over. [2:00:29] a period of time to know that it's working and it's worth investing in. So maybe that's the study. It could be a group project in this telegram group. [2:00:38] But yeah, if anyone's interested, I have a couple people that I'm going to invite. And anyone who's listening, who's interested, it's welcome. Hit the DMs. Hit the DMs. Okay. What should we end on here? [2:00:51] what a fun show oh i have something to end on oh you know what i'm excited about yeah oh sorry go ahead [2:00:57] Go ahead. [2:01:00] What do you say about it? Oh, my gosh. I know that's coming up next for us. Okay. Kate sent me this.

[2:01:09] link earlier over the weekend. [2:01:12] Kate, our Kate? Kate, our gal here? Our gal. [2:01:17] Thank you. [2:01:17] There's our peptide guy. [2:01:22] this clip [2:01:25] Xavier Leggett. [2:01:27] What team does he play for, Kate? Yes, he plays for the Carolina Panthers. Carolina Panthers. Football? Football. Okay. [2:01:36] NFL? Yeah, he's a wide receiver for the NFL. He is wearing this shirt. [2:01:43] It's out there. Satoshi, you see it? Oh. [2:01:47] Okay, hold on. I have the link for it. I have the link for it. Okay. And then I said, Kate dropped it in the chat. And then I said, so interesting. So curious. Can you source it for us? [2:01:57] And she did. [2:01:59] Because that's her gift. Uh-huh. God-given gift. Oh, my gosh. [2:02:05] Here it is. Wait, hold on. Exception clothes. It's really cool. Really cool. Out of stock. Out of stock. It's a really cool shirt. It's really cool. Yeah, wow. I really like it. I really like it, too. Too bad it's gone. It's so, yeah, it's out there. It's out there. It's out there. Not for us, but it is cool. Higher. [2:02:19] you know yeah for real um i that's great i love that um [2:02:26] Okay. Really lovely. Everyone was so lovely today. Um, [2:02:30] Okay, do you want to know a market that I think, back to the polymarket really quick, that I think should exist? [2:02:36] Mm-hmm. Will... [2:02:39] Ben and Jen.

[2:02:40] get back together. [2:02:42] Benefer. [2:02:44] It's a great market. It's a great market. It's a great market because... [2:02:49] Everybody knows. [2:02:50] together for many years engaged never got married [2:02:55] He [2:02:56] married [2:02:57] Another Jennifer. [2:02:58] Then, years later, [2:03:00] got back together, got married. [2:03:02] then divorced. [2:03:04] Then she has a new film out. [2:03:06] I'm not sure what it's called. [2:03:08] No worries. [2:03:09] great um and he is a producer on it he helped fund it and get funding for the movie uh yes yes and then they're on the red carpet together and they are they have great they love each other they [2:03:26] they can't quit each other. They cannot quit each other. And I, I, [2:03:30] You can see it in their eyes. They're like... [2:03:32] We doing this again? That's a great market. And I got to say, um, [2:03:37] I think we need more of that type of culture or pop culture market because I will say I'm going to share my screen and get to – [2:03:48] a market that I was looking at [2:03:52] this morning. [2:03:54] There's a lot of this on Polymer. I mean, but setting like the Taylor Swift aside. So this, this market is least stream song on the life of a show girl by October 10th. Okay. There's most stream songs. There's a lot of the markets and I understand why it's because they need something that's

[2:04:12] binary. Yeah. But I don't think this, I don't think they're tapping into Taylor Swift fandoms. [2:04:19] with this [2:04:20] kind of market. Right. [2:04:22] so I have been thinking about that a lot. Well, Bennifer, Bennifer would be a great one. I think Bennifer is a great one. Um, I had another one too, the other day that I was like, Oh man, if I could put some money on this, I would. [2:04:33] that was related. Oh, [2:04:36] Nicole Kidman? [2:04:38] Also divorce. They should just have divorce as like a subcategory. A tab, yeah. Because divorce is binary. Yes, it's a yes, no. Were filed or not? [2:04:47] relationships is harder because who's to who's going to confirm it i mean they had the relationship one around lana del rey that went viral [2:04:54] Yeah. But yeah, divorces, there's paperwork that's filed with the state. [2:04:58] Yeah. And I can, I can tell you that there is. I think that I do think that though, Nicole Kidman, [2:05:07] Getting divorced from Keith Urban. Always shocked by that. But she looks... [2:05:15] Unbelievable. She knew it was coming and she, I think, [2:05:20] She got her peptides game going. She's on the GLOW program. Yes, she sure is. She's on the GLOW program. But anyway, I think something around like her... [2:05:28] there's something there. There's a market that can be created around, um, [2:05:32] potentially like [2:05:34] her next [2:05:35] her next taboo. [2:05:37] I love that. I love it. But I do think a divorce tab is smart. So yeah.

[2:05:42] Shane, Tarek, if you're watching. [2:05:46] Yeah, I'm sure today Shane is locked up. [2:05:50] Thank you. [2:05:51] Oh, okay. [2:05:54] That anything else to add here? Let's see. Let's see. Let's see. Let's see. Let's see here. Okay. One last bit. Okay. [2:06:04] Most recent chat GPD search. [2:06:07] Besides, we had some audio. [2:06:10] We were really trying to figure out the audio here. Hold on. Let me take my polymarket market down. [2:06:15] Prior to that. Oh, you're going to pull yours up. I'm not going to share my screen because that would be far too revealing. Far too revealing. Um, [2:06:23] Let's see here. Oh, a rhyme for thinking. [2:06:28] that was it rhyme yeah what are some words like a rhymer could play be a play on the verb thinking oh what was that for um i was just doing some ideating around the thinking cap [2:06:38] and to see if there was anything there. [2:06:42] I was doing some brain story. Oh my God, that's really funny. We didn't come up with anything, but that was one of the last ones I had. Mine was... [2:06:52] Oh, and then I have a lot here. I'm going to be installing a runner. [2:07:00] a stair runner in my house. [2:07:02] Oh, cool. [2:07:05] getting some help from touch with you to understand how to approach the project what do you do diying it [2:07:10] Yeah. [2:07:11] I asked Chachi BG, well, I'm feeling insecure about it. And that was actually my first question to Chachi BG. New problem. Can I DIY this type of project of installing a carpet on the stair runner? Okay. And Chachi BG was like, basically, yes.

[2:07:25] Yeah. And so then I was like, what are the tools steps? And then honestly, like at that point, [2:07:29] And troubleshooting around discrete projects, I'm finding very, what we had to do before to set up the audio for this live stream. Yeah. It's really good for that. Incredible for that. It's incredible for that. I, you know, I love to cook. [2:07:41] Mm-hmm. [2:07:41] I don't know. I don't grill. Like people are always like, Oh, in the summer, you go for me and I grilled for you for me because I was like, Oh, I can just go. I know how to prepare food and chicken and all these things. And, [2:07:53] I just went out to your grill. You were at the Y, took a picture of the grill. How do I use this? [2:07:59] And then I was like, oh, this is... Incredible. Incredible. And then I was also like... [2:08:03] all these years, all these men who are like, don't worry. I got it. I'll grill. Forget it. It's so easy. It's so easy. It's a flame that needs to be managed. Yeah. You close and you, and then you pull, that's it. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I've built this up to be something that it's not a man thing. Yeah. A man thing. And it's really not just for anyone listening. Um, okay. My most recent, so anyway, I love that being able to take a picture and learn how to do something. Um, [2:08:29] My most recent ChatGPT search was I've been taking these – [2:08:34] vitamin c i was getting sick a lot i was getting sick really often and i and part of it i think is we travel all the time burning the candle at both ends it's bad yeah and so i was like i need to not life of a showgirl life of a showgirl [2:08:48] exactly and I was like I need to [2:08:51] improve my immune system. Yeah. And so I started taking these little, um, vitamin C packets that are supposed to be more efficient and I really love them. And they also taste really gross, but I've come to love the taste. Like it's just a dog type thing where I wake up and I want one. And then you said, um, yeah, maybe, maybe I'm addicted to them. That was a weird reveal that I think we should maybe look at. Like a habitual thing. Yeah. Yeah. Not like I wake up and I'm

[2:09:21] and you were like, oh, I don't know that you should be taking these every day. It might be bad for your kidneys. Kidneys. Yeah. And I searched it and, um, trashy PT was like, um, [2:09:33] So don't take it more than once a day. Once a day is probably fine. [2:09:37] It's a lot of vitamin C. [2:09:39] to be taking for one person to be taking yeah yeah but [2:09:42] We'll see. It's that the recommended dose on the packet is... [2:09:46] two to three times a day, which is insane. And they were like, don't do that. One day is probably fine. Two to three times a day is crazy. [2:09:54] Okay. [2:09:56] That's our show. Thank you so much to A16Z for letting us crash their beautiful office. Gorgeous office today. [2:10:05] so much equipment. [2:10:07] So much equipment. I'm also just now seeing your read right on. As ever. I saw that earlier. I was like. And then we have Ben Horowitz's book. [2:10:15] two books here. [2:10:17] Yeah, really. Shout out to those two guys. Shout out to those guys. [2:10:21] Okay. Bye. [2:10:25] Okay, that was DBH. Join us live on Twitter every Wednesday at noon. Or here, I guess.