Ep: 228 - Boys Club Live with Austin Federa of DoubleZero, James Kiernan of Octant and chat about Grimes joining LinkedIn, the Crypto Vanity Fair article, Expensive Basketballs and Cait's Dupe Shopping Skills

[00:29] Here's this week's show. [00:31] you [00:33] We are live. Welcome back to Boys Club Live. Such great energy, Kate. Such incredible energy. I always think I want you for that. [00:44] We may or may not be giving away a bunch of money, so you got to get in the chat. And that's how we're going to pick our potential possible [00:53] "Maybe winner." [00:55] I love that. Mr. Beast meets Boys Club Live. That's right. Hit that subscribe button. Hit that bell. Share with all your friends and get seated. I can really see your YouTuber. [01:10] uh, [01:12] Career. [01:13] - Yeah. [01:14] The arc is coming. So stay tuned. Okay. Okay. It's loading. It's loading. Yeah. Um, I have a question for you. Uh, do you know the name? There's this haircut that I'm wondering if you think I should get. Okay. [01:26] um [01:27] There will certainly be a name for it. I can't I don't know what it is and I just tried googling and I couldn't find it. [01:32] It's like, [01:34] here blunt, [01:36] Oh, one cut. And then it's longer blunt cut. [01:40] - Um, [01:41] Two tiers. [01:42] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do a lot of beautiful Asian women usually have it? K-pop stars might have it. Yeah. Okay. I don't know the name of it. [01:51] But I'm sure I can find out for you. Do you think I should do it? [01:55] It doesn't feel too risky because it's like... [01:58] I could just

[01:59] It'll grow out. Yeah. Yeah. Or you could just go back and be like, eh, give me angles. Yeah, yeah. The bangs are quite long. Like how they, when they... [02:07] Yes. So it feels like kind of a... Yeah. [02:11] Right. [02:11] I say do it. [02:13] I think I might do it. I support. Okay, so welcome to Voice Club Live. We have Kate here as a co-host today. Kate, you've really been doing the work, you've been doing the work, doing the stand-in work. Wherever I'm needed, you know, I'm flexible. You really are. You are like a utility. When I used to play softball, there was, there's the like utility player where you can like put that person anywhere. [02:34] Yep. [02:35] That's me. That's you. And I really appreciate that about you. We have a great show. We're going to chat for a bit, me and Kate. And then we have Austin Federa, who is the co-founder of Double Zero coming on to talk about his thing. And then James Kiernan from Octon is going to join us. Kate and I have a bunch of stuff that I want to chat with you about. The Vanity Fair article being one of them, which came out yesterday and everyone is talking about. Before we get into that, [03:05] Anchorage. But starting out with Octant, our supporting sponsor, Octant, is well known in Ethereum circles for its tireless contribution to the Ethereum ecosystem through research and millions of dollars in grants and public goods funding. But 2026 is their product era, and Octant is now laser focused on vaults, which enables orgs and communities to build sustainable funding systems through these yield generating products, direct your yield towards your own

[03:35] fair game with octon's new institutional grade vaults earn allocate and grow ethereum with defi the team has been working on some very exciting stuff uh and we're actually going to have james from octon on later today to talk about some of those things and we love octon octant [03:51] we love them and james is head of impact so we're gonna hear what the impact is we're gonna hear about these new things that they're building okay so we're gonna start off here [04:02] with a real, just a feel good story. Grimes joins LinkedIn, [04:08] - Yeah, she's just like us. [04:10] She's just like us. Claire, she used her given name. [04:15] Claire Boucher. I don't know how we. [04:18] Yeah. [04:19] didn't know her [04:21] government name and i just i don't know if i was expecting claire [04:26] You don't think she seems like a Claire? She does. The more I sit with it, the more I'm like, yeah, I could see Claire for sure. I could see Claire. I could see Claire for her. You know what this... Okay, yeah. The reason why she joined is because she's speaking at this conference. And presumably like some well-meaning comms person was like, hey, we have this like speaker card that we need to go up on your LinkedIn. And her people are like, we don't have a LinkedIn. And they're like, well, it's part of our contractual agreement that you need to actually get it up. [04:56] She's speaking at NVIDIA GTC, which is this huge NVIDIA conference that's taking place today and tomorrow. Ooh, we're going to see a new jacket drop, perhaps. There will be a new jacket drop, I'm sure. Certainly will be a new jacket. So we'll have to look out for that to update the spreadsheet or the Google sheet that we have. But yeah, Claire is here. So feel free to connect with her on LinkedIn. I'm sure she's accepting the information.

[05:22] all the requests that she's getting. Sure. I also love that she chose this as a headshot. [05:28] I know. It's great. Great picture. It also makes me want to read her. One thing about me is that I will really run to a Wikipedia page of someone if like for any anyone really, but. Yeah. [05:43] Like there was this... [05:44] Uh, [05:47] There was this TikTok that went viral the other day that was like someone filming behind someone else that's at a concert. The person's at a concert like reading the artist's Wikipedia page. And like I've been there so many times. So this does make me want to go to her Wikipedia page and find out where she's from because part of – [06:05] what I'm getting now, Claire Boucher, [06:09] is [06:09] she might be Canadian. [06:11] - Oh. - I'm kind of getting Canadian now. - I could see it. [06:17] I could definitely see. But she, in this about section right here, [06:21] What is it? What's the TLDR? [06:25] just how accomplished she is as a musician, which I totally agree. I actually really love her music. I like to think that she went to Wikipedia and she copy pasted whatever was in there and put it in her LinkedIn bio. Yeah. And maybe ran it through Claude. OK, so that's Grimes. Happy for her in her LinkedIn era here. [06:48] Do we want to go to the robots next? I would love to. Anytime a new robot video drops, it's immediately in Boys Club Slack.

[06:57] We love to see them dancing. We love to see the evolution of their movements. So let me pull some up here. Yeah, there's been three that dropped over the past couple days. And I honestly don't know that all of them are... [07:12] Like I could see them being AI generated, but at this point, I don't care. No, I don't care at all. Does it bring me joy? Yes. Right. [07:20] So which one do we want to start with? Any of them. [07:24] Okay, we'll start with [07:26] with the best one. [07:36] It gets me every time. [07:40] I love everyone in the crowd being like, "Ooh." Okay, have we not all been there? You're like, "I'll just love this move," and then you eat it? Totally, totally. Very relatable. I also think there's something about it being in the dress, too, that makes it extra, extra funny. That one. It feels like a film where two kids are stacked on top of each other trying to disguise themselves as a human. [08:10] trench coat exactly so that one's great that's this one that was on the timeline

[08:34] So, yeah, I think our mics are potentially muted when it's playing, but to describe it for the listener, there's a robot. [08:44] at a hot pot restaurant and it was it's a worker i guess it's you know doing its thing working and then all of a sudden just bust it's like never mind i don't want to work i'm just going to dance and the employers are trying to calm it down and it feels like it's resisting [08:58] the urge to be told to not dance and it just keeps pushing further the dance moves really funny it needs like four people to restrain it from really funny really funny stuff almost certainly ai but really honestly a good bit either way and they they deserve all the views that they're getting absolutely if you can make that like i support it [09:17] And then the last one here is robots playing tennis. So for the listener, we're about to watch a video where someone is using [09:26] a robot as like a [09:28] training partner, it seems. It does seem like, you know, you're not challenging whoever you're [09:34] The robot at this point, [09:36] what we're seeing in the video is, oh, you can lob it back and forth [09:40] Like you would play with a five-year-old. It's like, "Can I play? Can I play?" You're like, "Okay, we're not gonna go hard here. I might have to go chase some balls, but sure." [09:48] I mean, it's still... [09:50] What? It's to play Dennis. I mean, it's super impressive. Let me say that. No, I don't mean to offend the robot. It has been very impressive, but here we go.

[10:20] We'll see you next time. [10:37] okay you get the point yeah this one's much more earnest um and it seems to be like a very legitimate like training demonstration for this robot um what i will say what's striking about that video is [10:50] um all the micro movements it needs to do in order to stay [10:55] presumably balanced and to be able to then react to the ball that's coming in its direction. So like, [11:02] That's the thing that people say is sick. [11:04] we take that for granted as humans but like you see it and you're like oh yeah actually like we are always balancing [11:09] Wow. [11:10] Thanks, Bing. [11:11] Oh. [11:12] Really makes you think. You get the close up and it's like doing that. You know, they teach you on tennis, volleyball. They're like loose feet, stay on your toes, stay on your toes. That's what it's learning. That's what it's doing. Do you play tennis? [11:27] You seem to have-- - I do not. I was more of a team sport gal. [11:30] And I played all the team sports, but it's... [11:34] It's impressive also because. [11:38] uh i thought it was funny that the human i mean at any point could have smoked this robot but [11:44] Still, like it's doing the, okay, I'm ready. I'm juking, I'm moving.

[11:51] Good stuff. We're living in the future. [11:55] Okay, let's get the, we have a very special debut for this live stream right now, which Kate, I know. [12:02] we worked very hard on and you really honestly [12:05] like really outdid yourself. So quick shout out to our sponsor, [12:11] Anchorage. We have a very special guest from Anchorage that's going to be joining next week's show. So be sure to tune in for that. But in the meantime... [12:20] We're gonna roll this video. Roll the tape. Roll the tape. Let's see it. See this? This is your cap table. You made it in Google Sheets at midnight. It's got 47 tabs, three conflicting versions, and you're emailing investors one by one asking for wallet addresses manually in 2026. Why are you working twice as hard? [12:50] solution. One dashboard. Allocations. Vesting schedules. Cliffs. Lockups. It automates stakeholder collection so you never send another just following up email again. Post-launch, your tokens are held safely at Anchorage Digital, home to Anchorage Digital Bank, the first federally chartered crypto bank in the U.S. And they're not just sitting there. You can trade, distribute, stake, and earn rewards without your tokens ever leaving custody via Anchorage Digital's [13:15] fully integrated offerings. And your investors can easily access them through their own portal. If time is money, then make sure you use Anchorage Digital to get hours back. You following me, camera guy? You're not going to need this anymore. Go to anchorage.com or call 1-800-AT-ANCHOR. Don't really call.

[13:30] *thud* [13:32] Wow. Wow. [13:35] She's stunned. Stunned. Okay. So we love Anchorage. They have been such a great partner and let us really go, have given us a very long leash to do some creative work for them. But they, yeah, have all these really incredible resources and tools for founders and protocol builders. So you should definitely go check them out. Incredible work. Kate on that ad, a few things stood out to me. One, we, so the reference was Billy. Yeah. [13:58] ShamWow. Yeah. ShamWow ad. And the one thing I can always trust you to do is to follow, is to be able to follow a styling brief. Like look at this, the styling of the ShamWow guy [14:11] and completely nail it. So you're wearing like an oversized polo shirt and like, it just, it just really nails the energy. And then microphones. [14:22] to me really good stuff. [14:25] So we love Anchorage. You know, time is money. Go with Anchorage. [14:29] Seriously, really good stuff there. Okay, let's chat briefly before our first guest joins about this Vanity Fair article. [14:37] Do you see my Gigi when I asked Gigi Claudine? [14:40] I did. Yeah, I did. I did see that. So for those who don't know, we have a open club bot in our Slack and [14:49] It's so fun to see the various moments that people will call on Gigi. And this was one moment that we dropped this link got dropped into our Slack and Kate asked Gigi our open call for an explainer and it didn't know a good job.

[15:01] It did. Well, I would know because I needed the explainer, but. Okay. So this Vanity Fair article drops. Is my screen being shared? Okay, great. This dropped yesterday. Crypto's true believers demand to be taken seriously with this big flashy photo shoot. It's a long piece, lots of photography, basically profiling a bunch of very high profile crypto people from across the landscape. They have Meltem, [15:31] Olaf, this guy here who was early Coinbase, he's also an investor. They have two of the OpenSea people, Cathie Wood, who is an investor, but just has a big institutional fund. And then Danny Ryan, who early big Ethereum foundation now runs Etherealize. So lots of different kinds of people that they profiled and they put them in this [15:51] I don't know, this is not a real photo shoot. They presumably [15:55] Oh, the TLDR had the place where one of these guys owns this [16:01] the place that it was shot in. [16:03] Oh, okay. Got it. I thought it was just at a hotel. Anyway, this dropped yesterday and... [16:08] The timeline could not handle it. Crypto Twitter could not handle it. Could not handle it. What was the sentiment? It seemed so the Twitter, you know, when they say what's trending? [16:20] Yes. That's all I saw. I was like, okay, so there's mockery, there's madness, there's... [16:27] People don't like it. Okay. Here's what basically the piece did. [16:30] Thank you.

[16:32] it was not surprising as a piece in any way. Like it was a very typical of like what I'll call quote unquote mainstream coverage of crypto in that like, [16:41] The author clearly... [16:43] kind of hates crypto or like thinks that the people and the stuff that happens in this industry is ridiculous and they are right like and there is so much ridiculous stuff that you can point to you um but i think like the framing of it generally like especially in the headline like crypto demands to be taken seriously and then like basically the piece is a bunch of anecdotes about how like very ridiculous yachts and people buying ids for countries in micronesia so that they [17:13] - Yeah. [17:14] So it's that type of thing, which is nothing new. Also like, [17:18] not surprising and also not false. Like there's so much stupid and crazy shit that's happened that happens in this industry that it's like, yeah, like totally fair. Like this is, [17:30] you know what i mean like i i guess it was like people got really upset about it like painting crypto in the wrong light and i'm like [17:37] Like, none of what this person is saying is false. [17:41] Right. They are cherry picking the most ridiculous things to do. [17:46] showcase in the article. Okay, so you felt the tone was... [17:51] I'm going to ask you a question, but I want you to seem stupid. It was more like they, the author like pulled in stories of like, like, for example, the, the, [18:02] the she she tells the story about the open sea guy um like having basically a whole floor of stylists and like makeup artists like really cute yeah and i kind of i kind of want to look into that now yeah no you should definitely read it um so anyway all that's to say like i i actually didn't mind it like i kind of read it and i was like this is kind of like really entertaining like i thought it was

[18:27] I think the crypto industry is ridiculous. And I think like it was like kind of a fair read on it. She cherry picked a bunch of stuff that is extra ridiculous, as you would do if you were a writer. But I will say a couple of things stood out. One, Meltem has some incredible quotes. Like, I think someone needs to just pull. Maybe we could do this today. Pull a bunch of the quotes and like just a thread of them. She is. [18:51] Like, [18:51] really understood the assignment and like smashed it out of the park. She talks about, she does. [18:57] Like just incredible. She talks about how... [19:01] like the sort of one of the sort of through lines of the pieces about how crypto is this like religious sort of semi religious movement and that there's like the level of fervor and belief that the that. [19:13] people have is similar to that of a religious movement and that like it kind of has to, or at least it had to in the early days in order to like, [19:21] have [19:23] in order to build and grow in the way that it did. And then Meltem's talking about like, yeah, but like every asset class has a creation myth. [19:30] And crypto people are like the only people who are self-aware. [19:34] to like admit that it functions as faith. So she has like this whole bit that's like, yeah, we're just like the only ones that are like willing to, like, there was just a real self-awareness and like willingness to be like, yeah, every... [19:44] so does the dollar in a way, you know? And so anyway, she really nailed it. And I think also, just generally, like, it was a bunch of, [19:54] examples of like, there's this one example where, um, [19:56] this guy like he comes into the photo shoot and he had been like out at a rave or whatever and

[20:03] or like at a club and he's like, I'm hung over. And I'm just like-- [20:07] I'm not going to get mad at people for being unconventional and living their lives. Like that, that was meant to be sort of mocking. But to me, I'm like, [20:14] Who cares? Like that guy goes to a rave and he's like, whatever in his forties or fifties. I like, I just like, there's some stuff that was like meant to be fuel for. [20:25] that like outrage and I'm like I don't know you guys are like [20:28] Anyway, people are getting mad, you know, [20:31] people get mad at other people's lives when they're just living their life and not hurting anybody but potentially themselves like hey [20:38] none of my business totally none of my business um okay a couple of a couple more things then i want to bring austin up one thing that they um did really well the author did really well was they they talked about sort of the arc of crypto getting going from being this like a political thing if not like a little bit libertarian thing to getting sucked into the [20:56] vortex of the Trump politics and then the cost of that and like what that has meant for [21:02] the industry over the past, like whatever, year and a half. So I think they did a really good job at speaking to that. But I think... [21:09] One other last piece, Danny Ryan from the Ethereum Foundation, or now Etherealize, he's the guy who's barefoot. And for the record, I can't bear the barefoot thing like personally is a trigger for me. But like that was kind of set up as like him being. [21:25] like a sideshow kind of but like they didn't give him any time to like talk about the work that he does and like why the technology why there's this religious fervor about the technology like he would have been the one perfect guy to talk about that and they like didn't give him the time to do that they were just like haha he's like

[21:41] barefoot and i was like that's kind of hilarious yeah i'm like that's kind of [21:45] I don't know. I didn't like that. [21:47] That's fair. [21:48] That's fair. [21:49] Okay, so that's the vanity of her face. Kate, thank you so much for joining us. I'm going to bring Austin up. [21:53] Oh. [21:54] I'm going to remove myself. Okay, great. [21:58] Hi, Austin. Hey there. How you doing? How you doing? I'm a little sick, but I'm just sitting here nodding along being like, yeah, that that article was kind of weird. Oh, okay. I'm really curious about your thoughts. I'm Austin Federa, co-founder of Double Zero. Thank you so much for joining. I know that we had you on. [22:16] in uh breakpoints on a breakpoint um the girls had you on and we're singing your praises so happy to have you back second time guest um what did you think of the piece [22:26] *sniff* [22:28] I just have to sigh because it's so it could have been done. [22:32] very well. Yeah. And it just felt to me like, [22:35] Is there no one who has ever run comms at any of these people's organizations that like [22:40] could have had a little bit of a heavier hand in it. Just the photo shoot alone. I mean, the actual, like, as you're saying, Meltem's got some great quotes. There's a lot of like, [22:49] actually pretty decent content in it. But like anyone could have just said like, look, they're, they're, they're, they're trying to make you guys look like a bunch of magicians. Yeah, yeah, totally. I see that. I, I thought, [23:03] I thought Meltem came off. Honestly, I was like, I bow at the altar of. But I think that in particular, the OpenSea guys, I think they...

[23:14] they're they did not come off well it it okay so vanity fair does this this stuff every once in a while where they like they go to new york and they find like the largest personality that they could sort of justify writing about somehow and they like do a whole spread on them like this this has happened to i this has happened to like some people i know as well and it's like they they kind of like shoehorn this weird story and that doesn't [23:40] really make any sense, but it's just kind of an excuse to get the photos taken. And I feel like there is a little bit of like someone wanted [23:48] the photo and they like built a story around it well i will say it traveled yesterday far and wide on twitter so they're getting their they're getting their clicks um okay let's jump into double zero tell me again what is double zero [24:02] Sure. So Double Zero is a very different type of blockchain powered project than we've basically ever seen before. So what it is, is it's a private high performance fiber network run by multiple independent contributors, just like all the good stuff in crypto is. [24:32] And it's really about leveling up the playing field in crypto, making it able to compete more directly with traditional finance, both in terms of execution and latency. So in some ways, what we're doing is like not all that new in the sense of private networks are how finances run for, you know, most of our lifetimes. What's different is it's never been doable in crypto before without basically selling your soul to one network provider.

[25:02] way a blockchain does okay can i ask this super question [25:06] Yeah. Okay. So my understanding is that there's like kind of a parallel between what you are building and similar to like, um, [25:16] Oh, yeah. [25:17] TradFi like [25:19] hedge funds, the sort of high frequency traders, like the pipes that come in that gives them [25:26] information asymmetry basically like it lets them be able to [25:30] trade faster and get data quicker and that's basically what you're doing [25:35] for crypto, but in a way that is more [25:39] Decentralized, readily available, like is that a fair categorization? [25:43] Yeah, the type of work that's done by like all these firms that service high frequency trading firms, whether that is sort of like Reuters or Bloomberg or NASDAQ and NYSE, data is like the lifeblood of trading systems. That the more, the quicker you get data and the more accurate that data is and the more consistent that data comes in, basically the more efficient markets move. And so you can sort of think about this as if I am a market making firm. [26:11] I am trying to quote an accurate price, but the price changes every moment. And so if my feedback loop between I quote a price, I get a new price in, and then I have to like update the price I'm willing to buy or sell something for in an exchange, if that feedback loop takes... [26:28] 30 milliseconds versus five milliseconds, there's a real difference in how tight someone can quote. And this is kind of the old question about, there's really only one or two,

[26:38] markets in the world in crypto which perform at par to Binance. And there's a reason for this, is that Binance has a pretty fast exchange. Now, they're actually quite slow compared to like Nisey and NASDAQ, but like they're a pretty good exchange. And so pricing gets updated really quickly. If you're trading on, you know, Uniswap or something like that, Uniswap is a great product, but it's not going to have that like, [27:02] up to the microsecond pricing and if you're a retail user you may not particularly care that you know the difference in a two dollar movement in the price of ether is probably not material to you unless you're you know doing millions and millions of dollars but that is the aspiration of crypto that this is a replacement to the traditional financial system and so a lot of this stuff comes down to how do you increase uh like [27:27] the accuracy of price quotes for users. How do you get better pricing on chain? How do we start pulling price discovery away? Most people don't realize this, but there's almost no crypto assets where the price is actually set on chain. [27:38] It's almost all set by the Binance because Binance has the majority of the volume. And so if we want DeFi to compete with traditional finance and centralized finance, we need to make sure that the data flows are as performant as the actual underlying L1s and L2s. [27:54] Okay, you guys had a big launch, 00 Edge. Tell me about it. So the original product we came out with was a fiber network that validators, RPCs could run and operate on. And that's kind of like, bring your own validator, it'll just run much faster and much more efficiently on the 00 network. This is actually kind of doing something a little bit different, where 00 Edge is basically a high-speed data distribution platform.

[28:24] supporting on it is updates from the Solana blockchain. So if you're a trader and you want to say, what has recently changed? Recently, like what was just built in the last block? This is the fastest way to get that data into your trade systems to then be able to make trades. So if you are, you know, everything from like, you know, AAA market making firm to like a meme coin sniper, [28:48] knowing what just happened on chain is like one of the most important pieces of information about a decision-making process for what you want to do next. And so this is all sourced directly from the block builders themselves. And we use this technology called multicast, which is, has been, again, standard in traditional finance for 20 years or more, but has never been available in crypto before. And one of the cool things about multicast is it propagates data through a system [29:18] in New York will get the data at the same time. We obviously can't break the laws of physics and get the data there around the world instantly, but it's a much more fair distribution system. Because what happens right now in Solana is if you're a highly staked validator, you get data significantly faster than people who are low staked validators. This is true of every blockchain network. It's unavoidable. Like when you're sending out data one at a time, you have to pick who you do first and [29:48] way to accomplish that goal, but we have a better way to do that now with double zero. [29:51] Okay. And as I was reading your documentation, what's a shred that comes up?

[29:58] Yeah, so shreds are very Solana specific. They're basically like tiny little pieces of a block. [30:04] Okay, and you guys are Solana. [30:06] Tell me about the relationship with, I know you come from Solana Foundation. Tell me about the relationship to that, what you're building in Solana. Totally. So double zero is protocol agnostic or even crypto agnostic. We have some non-blockchain use cases of the network as well. Solana just happens to be the place where, like I say, Hyperliquid and Solana are the two places where this is sort of most important from a data perspective. [30:36] And if you're a trader trying to keep up with what's going on, that's a really big data problem to get all that data back to your systems. And so we picked Solana to start with in part because we had good inroads in the ecosystem. And it's where a lot of trading activity takes place. If there's no trade activity on a network, this type of product like 00 Edge doesn't really... [30:58] It's not material from that perspective. [31:01] Yeah. At one point, this was years ago, someone [31:06] and this is definitely does not pertain to your product, but someone was talking about 2021, 22, 23, like we're building all this infrastructure. And so at one point, it was like, it feels like we're building like, [31:18] all these multi-lane highways for [31:21] blockchains essentially that have like three cores on the road and like honestly that like [31:26] That was such a visceral picture that has really stuck with me. Clearly not the case with what you guys are doing, but that feels like

[31:33] No, but I mean, this is kind of the whole, so there's always this like cart on the horse, like debate that happens in crypto, right? And it's sort of like, oh, we either we overbuild infrastructure. [31:43] in the bear market and then a bull market comes and more people than we ever could have imagined show up and then the experiences fail and then you know we sort of have this like boom and bust cycle in crypto um and part of the goal of double zero is just to accelerate what's possible in all of these high performance blockchains by a decade or more now do most blockchains need 100x increase in capacity today [32:06] No, but the ones that have product market fit, like they're gonna need that 100x capacity sooner than they think. This is the story of technology and finance in general, is whatever your projections for the numbers are in terms of volume and users, they're usually wrong and it's usually much higher. Like you can go back and you can find people two years ago saying, Salon has got plenty of block space, it's never gonna run out of block space. And it's like, well, yeah, then Trump drops a [32:36] And it's not about like, this is the thing that I think people like get wrong in crypto. Most trading happens at market open and market close in traditional finance. [32:46] Like the vast majority of both volume and actual trades are in the morning and they're at the end of the day. But you need that massive capacity of NYSE and NASDAQ to do millions of transactions per second, not because at, you know, whatever time it is, 11.53 in the morning, there is a million trades going on. But that when a market movement event happens, you want to make sure you have the capacity to process everything. In crypto, we just we haven't we haven't been building for that serious level of economic activity yet.

[33:16] Thank you. [33:16] Yeah. How has it been since launch? What's the... [33:22] How's the pickup been? [33:23] Yeah, so Edge, we announced it a few days ago, and so we're in testing at the moment for it. It'll be going general availability early next month. [33:32] And so, so far, great. We've had some people posting sort of early performance indicators and stuff on Twitter. And it's been it's been fun to see. But one of the hard things with explaining a product like this is the advantage it gives you depends where you are in the world and where you're trying to talk to. [33:49] Okay, say more about that. Yeah, it's a very different type of thing where Solana can say 400 millisecond block times, 65,000 transactions per second. For double zero, it's like, [33:59] Yeah, if you're located in London, you may be receiving Solana block data [34:05] up to you know 125 milliseconds faster than you would be through any other type of system but that number is going to be different if you're in salt lake city or different if you're in tokyo so it's a much more complicated like nerdy product to try and explain to folks but we've seen huge interest from traders market makers exchanges all those sort of folks um are you like [34:26] um, [34:27] As I hear you talking about this, I'm like, are you building... [34:31] a Bloomberg terminal like eventually. I mean, Bloomberg does a great job with what their product is. Totally. In some ways. Yeah. Like the the the modern the vision of Edge over the long term is that this becomes the default and fastest distribution layer for

[34:48] data that were timeliness matters. Yeah. And you know, the beautiful thing about crypto is that happened, you know, in TradFi, there are maybe seven cities in the world that really matter from a data perspective. There's a lot of secondary markets that are like nice to trade on, but like price discovery happens in New York, it happens in Chicago. [35:06] It happens a little bit in like, you know, the Nikkei happens a little bit in London. But for the most part, like there's not actually that many markets you need to wire up with crypto. Anything can happen anywhere at any moment. And validators are run all over the world in different areas. And so if we're talking about, you know, how do we get the fastest data? [35:24] from equities pricing in New York to wherever the hyperliquid node is right now that is running perps for that specific pair. And this is the thing, everyone was sort of like, [35:37] we're going to just put the Hyperliquid book in Tokyo right next to Binance. And so the Crypto Purps are really good. [35:43] That's totally true. But what about equities? Equities are generated in New York. What about commodities? Some commodities come from Chicago. Some come from other places in the world. So what we basically see is like, as we sort of see this neo finance taking off and expanding, we're gonna like decentralize where price discovery happens over time for different types of assets. And you need this giant data network moving this data as quickly as possible all around to actually make these types of things work. [36:13] massive price discrepancies. [36:15] One of the most interesting things about the 1010 flash crash was how poorly crypto arbitraged that event.

[36:22] you had like multiple percentage point deviations in price between Binance and Coinbase. And you would have thought the market makers would be having a field day saying, oh, wow, I can buy Bitcoin for 1% less on this exchange and sell it for 1% more on this exchange. This is incredible. I should be doing this. You know, this this is like shooting fish in a barrel from their perspective. [36:44] But the infrastructure still wasn't there. And like these types of price disparities should not happen. You do not see a 1% difference in price between [36:52] Robinhood and E-Trade.com for like a Tesla stock, even when the market's like roaring or tanking. And so that was kind of a real wake up call for us to say, like, there's actually a huge amount of data infrastructure that still needs to get built out and 00 can play. [37:08] a pretty massive role in that. At the same time, we're not originators of data, right? We're not saying, we're not playing Chainlink or Pith. We're not telling you what a good price is. We're just telling you what this exchange's price is. [37:19] Wow, really interesting stuff. You guys are right at the bleeding edge. Okay, so what's in the last minute we have what's what's next? What are you guys thinking about? [37:28] Yeah, what's next? More different types of data feeds. So we're looking at a bunch of we're getting well, we're getting a lot of demand for prediction market data feeds, which would make sense to because those are also driven by news events, just like traditional trading. And then other blockchains out there than Solana as well. There's a lot of data out there and a lot of places people want to trade and we want to support all of it. [37:49] I love it. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you. We'll see you soon.

[37:53] Thank you. [37:55] Okay, James, pulling you up. Hi, James. Hi. How's it going? I'm doing really well. How are you doing? I'm doing good. James Kiernan, head of impact at Octant. How's your morning? [38:11] My morning's great. I'm in California, kind of a heat wave going on right now. But yeah, you know, I mean, hot for Santa Barbara. Santa Barbara is not really hot. You know, you got to go inland and I'm sure they're boiling. Santa Barbara. Nice. Yeah. Is that where you're based? [38:41] Yeah, man. I've only went to San Jose once, but I was like, this is a very beautiful place. Yeah, it's really expensive. So, you know, my wife and I are talking about buying houses right now. And, you know, you go on Zillow and you're just like, what? Yeah. Well, you're competing with Meghan Markle and Prince Harry. Yeah, totally. Yeah. [39:01] Okay. Really, really happy to have you on the show. Thanks for joining us. We love Octon so much. You guys have such a great team. We've met a bunch of folks. It's, it's, [39:11] Thank you. [39:11] Yeah. You guys just, it seems to attract like a very good person. Right on. Yeah. It's, it's been really awesome to see. So I've been with the, with the project or with the team now for four coming up on five years and. Oh my gosh. Wow. Yeah. So I mean, I've been here for a while and I've, I've seen the team grow, kind of have helped, you know, bring on a lot of the team members. So it's, it's been, yeah, it's, it's,

[39:35] Yeah, the vibes are great. Really enjoy working with the team. The energy is the same internally as you might see externally. I love that. I love that. You previously worked in talent recruitment. Is that right? Yeah, my friend and I were running like a headhunting program. [39:50] talent shop. So I was working with a bunch of [39:54] basically like a 16 Z crypto companies. And, you know, you, uh, your network grows pretty quickly from that, but, um, I don't know, I guess I have the gift of the gab. So it was natural for me. Okay. Um, I want you to tell us in your, in your voice and your language, what is often I, I feel we've, we've done an explainer. We do an explainer every episode, but I do feel like it's, [40:16] It's. [40:17] still some people have trouble like grasping it. So I would love for you to tell us what is Octant? [40:23] Yeah, sure. So I think understanding the history of like how it all started is probably a good place to begin. So Octant is a project that is being developed under Golem Foundation. And so a lot of OGs probably remember Golem way back in the day. [40:53] But anyway, so large treasury obviously is the history of Gollum. And when Ethereum transitioned over to proof of stake, that presented a really cool opportunity for Gollum Foundation to do something really interesting and also hopefully impactful for Ethereum.

[41:23] you know largely up until that point kind of been in their own little turtle shell doing doing their own thing so um [41:29] my bosses recognize that they definitely wanted to be able to give back to the ecosystem. And so, yeah, we started this thing called Octant, which initially was this experiment to whether or not we could power an effective grants program with the the engine being defy. So one of the big things that you see across the ecosystem with grants is that the way that they fund those grant programs is largely with token emissions or other things that are just not sustainable. And so [41:59] We staked a little over 100,000 ETH and we've been running these up until recently. We've been running these episode of grant rounds where every 90 days our community is able to [42:11] choose whether or not they want some of this staking yield going back to them because they have rights to claim that or they have the opportunity to donate to different projects that are bringing impact into the Ethereum ecosystem. And so [42:27] If they choose the latter, there's a big matching pool that leverages their donations. So their money goes a lot further if they donate to projects versus if they keep the yield for themselves. So we've been running that program for a few years now, and we're largely convinced that DeFi can be the backbone for a sustainable grants program. And so we're now in this transition to where rather than just doing this for our specific Golem community, bringing this infrastructure so that anybody who's

[42:55] across Ethereum can use the technology to grow their own ecosystem, to fund public goods, whatever they want to do. So that's this transition to Octon V2. And so we're providing the infrastructure so that you can tap into DeFi in a number of different ways. And then we're going to be bringing a lot of different methods for how you might want to allocate that capital in your community. Great. I want to talk about how and like the mechanics of how that works. But [43:25] I understand that you guys have a very special announcement to share with a video to match. Can we run that? Yeah, please. Yeah, please. Okay, great. Kate, let it rip. [43:34] DAO's have been sitting on dead capital for years. That ends now. Dead capital. Idle treasury, nothing to show. 1.2 million USDC with nowhere to go. From the shutter treasury, deployed into an Octon V2 vault. Now it moves. Now it works. Now it starts to generate through a more full USDC strategy. Yield on Yield on Yield on Yield. Yield on Yield on Yield on Yield. [44:04] Always in shutters control. Heal flows directly to the ecosystem funding pool. [44:20] wow incredible stuff i love someone really had a vision so yeah huge shout out to sarah she has been a blessing since she joined our team like i am never um anytime i see any kind of uh content that she releases it's you know i'm always in awe because it's she's just stepping her game up like every single time so it's it's it's great really incredible stuff um okay so shut her down the the

[44:50] announcement is a partnership with ShutterDAO. So can you tell us a little bit about that? Yeah, so ShutterDAO 0x36 has been a ecosystem or project that's been [45:02] participating with Octant, I think all the way since our epoch three, which was a couple of years ago. And so their community largely has been, you know, engaging with us and understanding the mechanics of how Octant works. And so, you know, as we started to highlight or make announcements around this transition to where other communities could could basically use the same technology that that we've been largely using for the GLM ecosystem. A couple of them reached out to me and [45:32] and decided, you know, what does that look like? And so we've been working with their DAO and, you know, sharing with them that, you know, there's these different pieces or these different products that they could utilize to grow their own ecosystem. And so just last Friday, the DAO proposal passed where they put $1.2 million of USDC into an octant vault, which is now generating yield. And so that yield is then going to be going to a funding pool [46:02] to different projects that are growing the Shutter ecosystem. - That's awesome. Congratulations on that. I'm curious, [46:10] One thing that I... [46:12] um as i'm hearing you talk about this that [46:17] Just as a curiosity is what the reason would be for Shutterdow or whomever is using any org that's using the Octon vaults, the purpose that they would use your vaults instead of running their own DeFi strategies. Like, can you talk a little bit more about that? Yeah. So the big thing, there's a number of things in there. But the big thing that separates our vaults, no pun intended, with others is that principal, capital and yield are split.

[46:47] different positions while still funding things that you want to fund with these vaults. And so when you go through the onboarding flow, one of the things that is unique is that there's a payment splitter in there and it allows you to define where do you want your yield going? So it could go back to you or a portion go back to you, a portion go to Protocol Guild or some other project that you're really passionate about. It could be 10 different projects and you have the ability to [47:17] there are some advantages from being able to essentially, like if you're long on ETH, but you still want to be able to support something with ETH yield, you know, this is a perfect way to be able to separate your position versus, you know, supporting other things that you care about. So there's this programmatic routing to wherever you wanted to go versus a traditional vault setup would have that just go back to reinvest in the whatever. Exactly. Yeah. So standard with 4626 vaults is that yield goes back to the depositor. And so [47:47] So yeah, this is what we saw as a unique feature that could bring value for people that have specific interests in that. Yeah, cool. Okay, I want to talk about Octon V2. I was playing around with it yesterday. First of all, the design is so fun. And shout out to whoever it is that's doing your product design. [48:05] Right on. The illustrations are really fresh compared to other crypto products that I've used. But it seems like there's the opportunity for orgs to...

[48:18] do this [48:19] vaulting and yield management or routing, but also individuals as well. So can you talk, can you walk me through a little bit how that works? Yeah. So the vaults anybody can use to deploy capital. And like I said before, have that yield programmatically sent to whatever destination they want. On the other side of that, we're building a few different products. One of [48:49] and facilitates them to be able to lock their tokens into a contract so that they are able to get governance over [48:58] some kind of funding pool, which could be funded by a vault. So there's kind of these different pieces that are able to be connected together if that's what you want to do. Some folks are just using the vaults by themselves and then they have different ways in how they want to allocate and they're not going to be touching the products that we're building for allocation. Others might want to have their own kind of DeFi positions that we don't offer with our vaults and then have that [49:28] modular kind of product suite that allows you to kind of pick and choose what you need from Octon V2 to meet your goals. And then you can use whatever other technologies exist outside of that as well and kind of plug them into the system. But going back to what you were talking about, [49:46] so what you're seeing here is, yeah, the ability to lock

[49:49] GLM tokens. And so this is going to be specifically for the Golem community. So if you have GLM tokens, you lock them into this smart contract and then that is going to bring you ETH rewards that we generate from our staking operation. So we'll be running now rounds. [50:08] um that are going to be released hopefully in and uh you'll see the first round somewhere around may nice [50:16] But yeah, so as a user comes in, they lock their tokens, they generate yield. And then later on, you'll be able to see different funding events that are taking place. And we're thinking through a lot of different interesting designs around different ways to fund things. So streaming funding, episode of grant rounds like we've been running before, there's a lot of different things that we can play with that I'm really excited to see how it unfolds as we move into 2026. [50:46] One thing I really like about this is that when I was clicking around yesterday, I landed on the docs. And usually docs, I'm like, oh, docs. I'm in docs. I'm going to see a wall of text that I'm unable to parse. And one thing I really appreciated about your docs is that was not the case. And I was able to, I hopped over to the docs and I was like, okay, great. I can orient myself with these [51:16] Shout out to whoever's doing this work because it really is refreshing to. Right on. Well, I think that's also feedback from what I've received. So like, you know, you start talking about vaults, you start talking about an application to lock tokens and like all these different pieces and people are just like, oh my gosh, what the hell are you talking about right now? So, you know, being able to break it out so it's digestible to somebody who's coming in fresh was something that we needed to orient around pretty quickly. Yeah, I think you guys know that. Okay, so what's next? I know you guys have some fun stuff cooking.

[51:46] working on. [51:46] Yeah. So on my side, I'm focusing on BD efforts. So we have a bunch of different engagements that we're zeroing in on with a few different ecosystems like Bitcoin and Nouns and some partnerships that we're getting a little closer with some fun stuff with the EF. [52:16] that is kind of on the horizon, is that the infrastructure that is largely [52:23] making Ethereum run and having zero downtime. That's been almost exclusively funded by a few small organizations. And there's a lot of really successful businesses that are growing on Ethereum and this free rider problem where everyone's happy that somebody else is paying it. So our large goal here is to start to distribute that funding, bringing in more organizations that are doing [52:53] Funding as a charity is not working. And eventually it's going to come to a halt. You know, teams that are building this infra that everyone's relying upon. They need to get funded at the end of the day. So this is our goal is making sure Ethereum runs for another hundred years with no funding problems into that. I heard. So if you're listening and you're one of those free riders, this is your call to action to start giving back, start paying your dues. I think that's so important.

[53:23] Okay. Last question here. What did you think of the vanity fair article? The vanity fair article. I mean, I don't have any initial reactions to it. [53:34] No worries. I, I, it's, it was mostly honestly, the thing I would be most curious about is they did a photo shoot of Danny Ryan barefoot and, um, [53:45] he was featured in it and would be curious what you think about that. Do you have a shirt off? Cause I've seen a few, I've seen a few, uh, a few, uh, photos of him just like working out in the gym and I didn't realize he's, he's a massive dude. So he's, he's, he's committed to, to the swole lifestyle. Um, is it CrossFit? Do you know, or, you know, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know exactly what, but, um, he's a, he's a, he's a heavy lifter, which honestly I respect. I respect [54:15] Okay, James, so fun. [54:17] to chat with you. Welcome back anytime. Likewise. And keep us posted. [54:21] Okay, cool. Yeah. Thanks for having me on. Really grateful for y'all. Totally. All right. Cool. Cheers. [54:27] Thank you. [54:28] Okay, Kate, I'm going to bring you back. [54:31] Nice guys. So lovely. So lovely. I learned a lot. I'm really excited for all these updates. I know everyone was, has got really fun stuff cooking and like it's moments in those conversations where I'm like, [54:45] There's moments where I can be on the timeline and I'm like, man, crypto is like, we're in [54:50] big trouble. And then I hear from people like that and I'm like, there's really cool stuff that's happening. And

[54:57] It's just really heartening. Okay. A few more quick hits here to close out. You have a note here that says Banksy doxed or nah. [55:06] Can we bring that up? And do you have any more information on this? I unfortunately know. So the TLDR is... [55:15] supposedly thinks he was doxed if [55:18] People don't know who Banksy is. I have some visuals. Sorry to just the listener, but Banksy, famous graffiti artist. Here is a quick Google of his work. You get the idea. And everyone thought, oh, man, Banksy is so cool. I was a huge fan. You know, me, like. You were, Kate. Well, not like of the messaging, but I was just like, graffiti art is so cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He also had a. [55:46] uh uh exit through the gift shop that was hidden to a documentary [55:51] That's what did it for me. Okay. I was in my documentary phase straight out of like film school at that time. So come on. Okay. I get it. So then you expect him to look like super cool. I don't know. You just picture this cool dude and supposedly... [56:08] You know, not to hate on if he doesn't, [56:12] meet your expectations, but this is the image that's circulating. [56:16] and people are talking about it, but then you see the community note. [56:20] So it's breaking the value of Banksy pieces are plummeting after it was revealed that he's, quote, an old fat guy, which rude. But then we see a community note and the community note says this man is not Banksy. He is George Kahneman.

[56:38] jewelry whatever age 67 he's simply assisting his son who owns the block of flats where the mural appeared oh my gosh so that's not Banksy I don't know comment down below if you know or if you fact checked this but I just thought wow wow wow wow look what's happening and not a lot of people are talking about it [57:02] Um, [57:04] Okay, wait. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Are you Googling it? Oh, okay. Wait. After decades of mystery, Banksy is fine. Okay. It's the same guy. People don't know. He's not. I don't think he has. I'm going to say that's not Banksy. That's not my Banksy. Yeah. Also, the same image is being shared in all of these stories that are saying he's Dox. And if that guy is a – And one, they look very similar, though. He looks like he's just hard at work, this George man. Yeah. [57:31] Totally. Also, the premise of this story being like he's not doesn't look cool enough to be an artist. I think you guys haven't met enough artists because you know what I mean? Like, yeah, I sat with it for a moment. I'm like, no, this looks exactly like totally like if that was Banksy. I'd be like, yeah, totally. That checks out. And I think people who are having that type of reaction, it reveals to them that like their world is this big. [57:54] because like that's a lot of artists in my opinion are like haggard kind of [57:59] people that like whatever. So anyway, that's my take on that. Okay, you have a couple other quick hits here. You want to run through them? Sure. Let me pull it up. Okay, what do we got here?

[58:12] Very quick hit was the image. [58:18] A basketball costs $100 now. - Is that true? - Look at the prices. If you zoom into this photo, unless it's AI, [58:26] but [58:28] Part of me is like, no way. And then I'm like, you know what? Maybe. Because we got some Wilson Spaulding all in the 99 to 104 range. I mean, it does look like a high quality. And I would like to just say, I'm pretty sure I bought this for $30. $30. [58:46] So... [58:47] Yeah, but you're not, you don't have the Spalding. I don't have the Spalding. Spalding was my go-to, but this is just an Under Armour. So maybe, maybe Under Armour is cheaper. I will say that related to this, I, um, [59:00] Dave took the kids out last week to Costco for lunch. I tweeted about this. I was like, where are you going? And he's like, I'm going to take the kids to Costco for lunch. And I was like, [59:10] Like, do you have anything you need to get there? Or you're just like, that's the food destination. And he's like, that's where they want to go. That's where I want to go. So that's where we're going. Anyway, part of that trip was he was going to go. He had heard that through his football, his soccer club that. [59:25] there's cheap soccer balls that are sold at Ross. [59:28] dress for less. I know you guys don't have Ross in New York, but we have Ross. I know Ross. You know Ross. Always next to the TJ Maxx. Yes. Yes, exactly. So Ross has a cheap... [59:41] um,

[59:42] Chief soccer ball. That's the rumor that the football guys in Nashville are saying. They keep it. [59:47] I know, I know. I don't think we have a lot of Nashville football soccer guys listening, but I'm not too concerned. Okay. One more here. [59:59] The John Galliano, maybe? Sure. Okay, so... John Galliano... did I not upload the photo of him? No worries. Okay, so John Galliano, who is famous for the 2004... I mean, so many things, but more recently people might know him. He's a creative director, designer. He made the show for Mason Margiela with Pat McGrath, famous doll makeup. And... [1:00:27] It's continuing the trend of fast fashion brands, hiring like luxury creative directors and designers to try and beat out the sheen's [1:00:37] And they're like super crazy fast fashion. Their brands like H&M have been doing it where they're trying to seem like [1:00:44] mid-tier level fashion. So he signed with Zara. Yeah, he signed with Zara. So Gian Galeano signed a two-year deal. They're calling it a two-year partnership with Zara. [1:00:57] Okay. [1:00:59] And how does this make fashion people feel? [1:01:02] It's interesting. So many people are saying, I think fashion people take themselves way too seriously. Right. And the industry way too seriously. And I enjoy fashion and style and all those things. But we're like, oh, this is the death of fashion. I'm like, first of all, let the man get his bag.

[1:01:22] And if you want to make some cool pieces in the meantime, fine. The funny thing is [1:01:28] they're saying it's from Zara's archives. Okay. Which is hilarious. And I guess the quote he gave or what people are saying, the headlines were like, he's been looking at the Zara archives and he thinks they're interesting and he has ideas. And then you see memes and it's someone like walking the shelves of, walking the aisles of a grocery store with empty shelves. And they're like, [1:01:52] grabbing at nothing and it's like what what czar's archives okay right um [1:02:02] Like, what does he mean, though? [1:02:05] Supposedly they're going to dig into old collections. Okay. The message here is supposed to speak to Zara's trying to get away from seeming like a wasteful brand. It's a sustainability move. Yeah. [1:02:19] I'm going to do a video on this, but we are going to see the the rise of sustainability in a sense of before we cared about it in 2018. It was all the talk about, oh, this is sustainable and that's kind of coming back with AI and whatnot. [1:02:35] Oh, interesting. How do we get brands to care? [1:02:38] about our fashion brand because everybody's got a fashion brand now. [1:02:42] Yeah. Kind of exhausting. Okay. Speaking of, this is just on a personal note. If anyone is here for really just work stuff, feel free to drop off now. But I don't. We might be picking a winner and giving away a lot of money. But I do want to say that one thing that you are uniquely talented at

[1:03:01] is [1:03:03] Shopping for dupes. [1:03:05] Thank you. And over the weekend, I'm going to share my screen here. [1:03:08] I really want [1:03:10] this pair of pants. [1:03:12] oh hold on let me get through the um okay uh pants in this style but really these are the this is the pinnacle of the kind of pant it's a it's a long trouser [1:03:22] for those who are listening and it has a overlay skirt. [1:03:27] Um, personally, the skirt's a little short. I want like a midi, a mid tier hits the knee, but the look is basically a skirt. [1:03:35] over the pant in one in a one-er garment yeah and i said out blake has a really great she does and i saw i i also saw her pair [1:03:45] And I was like, I can't buy this because Blake has it. But she has a beautiful pair of Ghani. [1:03:49] um, [1:03:50] skirt overlay whatever yeah a couple things here well first of all i put this into our slack and i said kate [1:03:57] can you help me find a due for these? This was like Saturday morning at like 7am. And you almost immediately responded with five or six links, direct links to product, all sorts of different price points too. Like you went, [1:04:12] We had a we had a you got to go Amazon and cheap, you know, but also. [1:04:18] I'm like, yeah, you got it. You got to do the $39.99 at H&M. But you also are going to you're going to throw me the I don't know. [1:04:25] what would the roof i think there's like 150 dollars and like they're still half the price of the the reference you gave [1:04:30] Yeah, totally. This, this may, this was a great different price point. Um, so anyway, you're just so talented at that. And I feel so, um, lucky to be a friend and to be able to send you, um,

[1:04:40] asks in those moments. But a couple, one other thing. So on that note, I bought a pair. They're on their way. I'm so excited. Exciting. [1:04:49] And but the other thing I'll say about [1:04:52] just this journey that I've been on with the skirt over the pant. [1:04:56] item that I'm trying to find is that when you don't know how to Google something, you are so severely limited. And you're, [1:05:06] I don't know how to describe skirt over pant. Like there's no word. I would say pant. I would say skort pant or pants with skirt. [1:05:15] No, pants with skirt gets you to a weird place. That's like a squirt pants squirt. [1:05:21] is pants score would bring back short tennis skirts a score [1:05:28] That's what I searched when I was on my journey. Hold on. Pants with skirt. Anyway, I really am having a hard time. [1:05:40] - Really having a hard time finding what this [1:05:44] is called [1:05:46] Yeah. [1:05:46] Yeah, basically you'll go in, you'll see what the... [1:05:50] e-comm site is calling it. [1:05:53] and then just try those versions. No one's aligned on this though. No, they're not. They're not aligned. You're right. There's an opportunity for someone to come in here and really to name it and claim it. Yeah. Now let me ask you this. Have you ever just tried [1:06:08] buying the trousers and buying the skirt.

[1:06:11] um, [1:06:12] As long as they match, it could look like a monochrome set. Yeah, that's advanced level. And I asked you to do the Ashley Tisdale. [1:06:21] I think that that's for fashionistas like yourself who can figure out visually how to make that work. For me, I need it. I need it just... [1:06:31] given to I need it on a plate you know what I mean like if I'm being asked to [1:06:36] layer in that way and have that type of vision, it's not going to go well. So that's why I'm like, it attached. [1:06:43] is [1:06:43] Helpful. This all for me. [1:06:45] That's fair. You know what I mean? Yeah. Okay. On that note, thank you so much for tuning in this week and for listening. Next week, we're going to be live in person in a studio and I'm going to be there and Hatcha going to be there. We have a bunch of guests already lined up and it's going to be really fun. We have, I know Emily and Tori are hosts from not medical advice. They're going to be joining us among some other fun folks. So when I listened to the Theo von Brian Johnson podcast, [1:07:14] How was it? Man, I got to send this to the not medical advice girlies because it kind of felt [1:07:20] in the same vein. [1:07:22] Totally. Wait, what was the vibe? [1:07:25] The vibe was very much Brian Johnson, who I'm sorry, but the more I listen to him, the more likable he seems to me. She's converted. I'm converted. I'm a Brian Johnson apologist if he needs one, I guess. [1:07:36] It's just explaining certain biohacking things to Theo Vaughn and Theo Vaughn's like, all right, cool. Tell me more. What about this? And what about that? And it was really entertaining. Wow. Was it like basic level biohacking stuff or is Theo Vaughn like, did he have an understanding and was he getting into like weirder stuff? I was surprised.

[1:07:59] That Theo Vaughn knew as much as he did. Yeah. [1:08:03] Brian Johnson didn't have to explain a protocol to him. [1:08:07] Okay. And my CEO was just like... [1:08:10] Yeah. But the way that he was interjecting and asking questions seemed like the man knows some of it. He's doing sauna. He's, he's asking about red light. He's gone and seen natural doctors. Yeah. [1:08:22] I could see him like he's sober. I could see him having like that. [1:08:28] side of him that... [1:08:30] would [1:08:32] do well in a conversation with someone like Brian Johnson. Anyway, thanks for listening so I didn't have to. You're very welcome. I'll send Gigi's TLDR. Okay, thanks everyone for watching. We'll see you next week. [1:08:45] Bye.